boesman88 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Hi Philip. I wish I could find an LBS that demonstrates trustworthiness like yours. Re fitting the parts - only OEM parts from Chain Reaction Cycles. Fitted with the OEM workshop manual and tools, to their specifications. Always with a torque wrench. I dont charge other people for my services I only work on my bikes - if I mess it up, I bleed. No ones fault except mine. The key moment was this- saved up my cash for a long time to buy my first double susser - eventually got a Cannondale Rush 2. Had issues with the suspension right off the bat. Took back to the LBS, watched him tighten all the linkages FT. Told me to ride it. Issues persisted, took it back 3 times. Every time, linkages were “loose”, tightened up by the owner. Qualified mechanic, owner of the shop. When it eventually failed, I took it apart - none of the bearings were properly lubed, seals had cracked. Caps that were tightened FT had damaged the bearing races and were destroyed. LBS answer, backed up by Cannondale? Oops. Maybe we should have checked - warranty? No way. Service fault, lots of finger pointing, no action. This is a guy who has Cannondale, Trek and Merida agency. He doesn't have a torque wrench in the shop - I asked. BTW - tighten the bolts on your 100k carbon frame bike without a torque wrench and watch the cracks happen. Wont happen on my 20k aluminium frame - the more cutting edge your equipment, the more critical the service accuracy is.What is also often overlooked is whoever assembles the bike in the first place at the shop when it arrives in boxes often does it quickly-quickly... issues like lubrication, over/under tightening etc occurs WAY too often only to be discovered way down the line. On my first service (at around 120 hours if that) I had a failed hub bearing - failed as in seized solid. In fact when I removed my rear wheel the casette practically fell off the XD hub cos the securing nut was not torqued properly- leading I assume to bearing failure. During the 120 hrs I never rode thru excessive mud nor used a pressure washer once. Best solution is to get upskilled and do it yourself if you have the inclination for it- thats the only way to really know that its done right / wrong as you say. alleyne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Crispy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Hi Philip. I wish I could find an LBS that demonstrates trustworthiness like yours. Re fitting the parts - only OEM parts from Chain Reaction Cycles. Fitted with the OEM workshop manual and tools, to their specifications. Always with a torque wrench. I dont charge other people for my services I only work on my bikes - if I mess it up, I bleed. No ones fault except mine. The key moment was this- saved up my cash for a long time to buy my first double susser - eventually got a Cannondale Rush 2. Had issues with the suspension right off the bat. Took back to the LBS, watched him tighten all the linkages FT. Told me to ride it. Issues persisted, took it back 3 times. Every time, linkages were “loose”, tightened up by the owner. Qualified mechanic, owner of the shop. When it eventually failed, I took it apart - none of the bearings were properly lubed, seals had cracked. Caps that were tightened FT had damaged the bearing races and were destroyed. LBS answer, backed up by Cannondale? Oops. Maybe we should have checked - warranty? No way. Service fault, lots of finger pointing, no action. This is a guy who has Cannondale, Trek and Merida agency. He doesn't have a torque wrench in the shop - I asked. BTW - tighten the bolts on your 100k carbon frame bike without a torque wrench and watch the cracks happen. Wont happen on my 20k aluminium frame - the more cutting edge your equipment, the more critical the service accuracy is.Why do you repost someone's comment, then post your own, then repeat yourself?You're bright enough to service your own bike, get an engineering degree, but you can't figure out how to use the Bikehub website?You got me there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me rida my bicycle Posted October 30, 2019 Share I'm afraid cyclists in general don't think like that in my experience ...They expect 100% perfection every time and I must assume that they provide no less in their own professions, jobs or business ... but I'll just stop there else I just raise my blood pressure unnecessarilyI never expect perfection, but if they made a mistake be a big boy and say sorry I made a mistake I will sort it out and not look for someone else to blame. BigDL and MORNE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipV Posted October 30, 2019 Share Hi Philip. I wish I could find an LBS that demonstrates trustworthiness like yours. Re fitting the parts - only OEM parts from Chain Reaction Cycles. Fitted with the OEM workshop manual and tools, to their specifications. Always with a torque wrench. I dont charge other people for my services I only work on my bikes - if I mess it up, I bleed. No ones fault except mine. The key moment was this- saved up my cash for a long time to buy my first double susser - eventually got a Cannondale Rush 2. Had issues with the suspension right off the bat. Took back to the LBS, watched him tighten all the linkages FT. Told me to ride it. Issues persisted, took it back 3 times. Every time, linkages were “loose”, tightened up by the owner. Qualified mechanic, owner of the shop. When it eventually failed, I took it apart - none of the bearings were properly lubed, seals had cracked. Caps that were tightened FT had damaged the bearing races and were destroyed. LBS answer, backed up by Cannondale? Oops. Maybe we should have checked - warranty? No way. Service fault, lots of finger pointing, no action. This is a guy who has Cannondale, Trek and Merida agency. He doesn't have a torque wrench in the shop - I asked. BTW - tighten the bolts on your 100k carbon frame bike without a torque wrench and watch the cracks happen. Wont happen on my 20k aluminium frame - the more cutting edge your equipment, the more critical the service accuracy is.It seems you've already paid some school fees. I would have referred you my lbs, but you are on the wrong side of the pretty mountains. But surely there must be a decent mechanic in Pretoria. The Torq zone academy is based there, so there must be some knowledgeable workshops on the area? You just need to find them. I go to a specific mechanic in a specific shop. Other people don't like going there due to various reasons, but I know that Daryn is the mech I trust. He doesn't have an engineering degree or a bike related qualification, but neither of those is necessary. There can be a qualified guy in the shop next door and I would still take my bike to Daryn. He knows what he is doing and his attention to detail exceeds my expectations. Working on bikes are easy (I've been doing it for 19years, I believe I can say that,) you only need some knowledge, patience and the right tools. There still are jobs I don't do, and I know there is a shop I trust for these... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABrooks Posted October 30, 2019 Share If you need filing you are using the wrong combination parts. Or maybe it needs to be epoxied in place. MDJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted October 31, 2019 Share What is also often overlooked is whoever assembles the bike in the first place at the shop when it arrives in boxes often does it quickly-quickly... issues like lubrication, over/under tightening etc occurs WAY too often only to be discovered way down the line. On my first service (at around 120 hours if that) I had a failed hub bearing - failed as in seized solid. In fact when I removed my rear wheel the casette practically fell off the XD hub cos the securing nut was not torqued properly- leading I assume to bearing failure. During the 120 hrs I never rode thru excessive mud nor used a pressure washer once. Best solution is to get upskilled and do it yourself if you have the inclination for it- thats the only way to really know that its done right / wrong as you say. LOTS of truth an that statement !! January 2017 we bought a very cheap bike from Makro for our then 5 year old godson. Being his first bike we had no idea if he was going to take to the sport, so we bought the cheapest we could get at Makro. Back at home I STRIPPED that bike, and rebuild it properly. Making sure everything it lubed, alligned, trued and tightened correctly .... O, and the bike does get a proper annual service, in my home garage (due for a service now) He did take to cycling Even did the 12km Hemel-and-Aarde trail on that bike the week before turning 6 years old. The bike moved over to his parents house, and he uses it around the yard. MANY of his friends have learnt to ride on that bike. To this day that bike purs along perfectly. So even a cheap TOTEM from Makro can deliver decent service when assembled properly, and serviced regularly. Which makes it hurt even more when you buy a full-suspension TREK from an authorized dealer, and having to take it back 2 days later due to "creaking" .... they wont tell what had to be tightened and/or lubricated. Bearing issues a few hundred kilometers later .... The best "warrantee" in the industry is useless when their dealers are useless .... Ended up taking the bike to an independent workshop to have it fixed properly. Many others with the same bike swears by how good the bike is .... did I buy a dud, or was the owner and/or his lacky incompetent to assemble the bike ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted October 31, 2019 Share If you need filing you are using the wrong combination parts.If you need filing you are using the wrong combination parts.Yes I would consider Shitmano on anything to be the wrong combination of parts you're absolutely right and bravo you win Quagga and tikki 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boesman88 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Yes I would consider Shitmano on anything to be the wrong combination of parts you're absolutely right and bravo you winTake it you had some bad experiences with Shimano gearing. Sorry to hear that. And by the way, mr(s). ABrooks comment re “using epoxy” is simply unacceptable too - please give him an equal amount of lip. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieterJvR Posted October 31, 2019 Share Anyways the shop could not replicate the issue with the ‘clack’ sound, so I’ll be collecting my bike tomorrow for the last time (ever). They will ‘try’ and polish the scratch out but I’m not holding my breath. Sadly their service isnt as epic as their name suggests. Unfortunately in this day and age it sometimes take a few tries to find the right mechanic or LBS to work on your bike (unless you do it yourself). I am not sure where you located, but by the sounds of your hint above, I would say you are in Centurion - if so, and you looking for a good mechanic go and see Robert Frost - you can google him or look for him on facebook.His business is called Robs bicycle service centre. He always gives honest feedback and does really good work. PM me if you want his details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tikki Posted October 31, 2019 Share Unfortunately the cycle trade is one big mess , it has been for some time and it won't get any better soon . The standard of workmanship produced by the bulk of the shops is just shocking and these weekly stories just hurt them more , no wonder most prefer to work on there own bikes . The biggest problem is there is no one to enforce a standard of workmanship and its pretty much a do as you please with very few held accountable for sh1tty work. Brands never seem to put pressure on shops to lift up there standard of work as its all about turn over even though these shops damage brands considerably. No Brand inspects a shops workshop and staff to see if it can service at a high standard . Sadly most consumers cant even tell the difference between good service and bad service and thus don't complain so it carrys on . Thankfully you guys here always keep the topic in the spot light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torq Zone Academy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Some good points made here.... and yes, I guess all we want is quality professional service for the money we pay and not get ripped off with unprofessional service, being overcharged while not resolving the actual problem, damaging the bike and you having to go back 3 or 4 times to do what should have been done in the first place. On the point of being “qualified” to work on the bikes... its difficult because its not to say that having the papers guarantees quality... gosh if that was the case we would have a lot of brilliant drivers on our roads with valid drivers licenses. I guess its more a combination of skill, knowledge, experience, passion, pride and attitude that makes a great bike mechanic. Sadly you can only improve knowledge and maybe a bit of skill thru training. The rest you are born with, or not. As an aside, I should have realised my mistake to take my bike to the LBS in the first place when I saw one of their mechanics filing away on a free hub on some poor customer’s bike presumably ensuring a good fit between hub and casette... WHAAAAT??? Yes, taking a metal file and working away some metal from the free hub... this happened when I collected my bike the 2nd time. Bottom line is that this was the last time anyone else lays a qualified or unqualified hand on my bike. man I miss riding with guys like Johan Borman - he use to educate us on the intricacies of frame setup and building a wheelsetS that mr. Brandt would be proud of himself. An interesting analogy. You'd probably find that drivers than went through a driving school to get their license are generally better drivers. Likewise mechanics having completed fundamental training are better qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torq Zone Academy Posted October 31, 2019 Share Some good points made here.... and yes, I guess all we want is quality professional service for the money we pay and not get ripped off with unprofessional service, being overcharged while not resolving the actual problem, damaging the bike and you having to go back 3 or 4 times to do what should have been done in the first place. On the point of being “qualified” to work on the bikes... its difficult because its not to say that having the papers guarantees quality... gosh if that was the case we would have a lot of brilliant drivers on our roads with valid drivers licenses. I guess its more a combination of skill, knowledge, experience, passion, pride and attitude that makes a great bike mechanic. Sadly you can only improve knowledge and maybe a bit of skill thru training. The rest you are born with, or not. As an aside, I should have realised my mistake to take my bike to the LBS in the first place when I saw one of their mechanics filing away on a free hub on some poor customer’s bike presumably ensuring a good fit between hub and casette... WHAAAAT??? Yes, taking a metal file and working away some metal from the free hub... this happened when I collected my bike the 2nd time. Bottom line is that this was the last time anyone else lays a qualified or unqualified hand on my bike. man I miss riding with guys like Johan Borman - he use to educate us on the intricacies of frame setup and building a wheelsetS that mr. Brandt would be proud of himself. Couldn't agree more although training can also be used to adjust attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted October 31, 2019 Share time to turn up the heat on this thread a bit .... Fair to say that everybody wants an "expert/qualified" person to work on their bikes. May possibly be fair to say that many on this forum are "experts/qualified" in their respective career paths ..... and similarly, many have an idea as to what is considered a "fair labour rate for a SPECIALIST" ..... But we have as many threads where people would rather import a part directly to safe a few hundred rands ... and then shop about for the shop that would fit it at the lowest rate .... Just MAYBE there is a slight disconnect between the "perceptions" of fair rates vs "wanting specialist service" .... while so many are only willing to pay a "casual labour rate", how can we expect a real change .... popcorn time .... BigDL, eddy, andydude and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boesman88 Posted October 31, 2019 Share time to turn up the heat on this thread a bit .... Fair to say that everybody wants an "expert/qualified" person to work on their bikes. May possibly be fair to say that many on this forum are "experts/qualified" in their respective career paths ..... and similarly, many have an idea as to what is considered a "fair labour rate for a SPECIALIST" ..... But we have as many threads where people would rather import a part directly to safe a few hundred rands ... and then shop about for the shop that would fit it at the lowest rate .... Just MAYBE there is a slight disconnect between the "perceptions" of fair rates vs "wanting specialist service" .... while so many are only willing to pay a "casual labour rate", how can we expect a real change .... popcorn time .... Its called 4th industrial revolution. With the barriers of entry removed by TCP/IP its easier than ever to buy stuff from anyone anywhere. Everything is becoming open- even banks and their payment rails. Businesses must learn that they have to digitise or risk going out of business. Best example is Kodak vs Amazon book store. Both non IT companies. Amazon chose to digitise, Kodak not. It will be sad that some business owners do not see the light as they will go out of business. The once who do see the light will become great! This whole digitisation business and strategising to take advantage of 4th industrial revolution is what pays for my bike and the stupid expensive service I had to pay. Part of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ouzo Posted October 31, 2019 Share Its called 4th industrial revolution. With the barriers of entry removed by TCP/IP its easier than ever to buy stuff from anyone anywhere. Everything is becoming open- even banks and their payment rails. Businesses must learn that they have to digitise or risk going out of business. Best example is Kodak vs Amazon book store. Both non IT companies. Amazon chose to digitise, Kodak not. It will be sad that some business owners do not see the light as they will go out of business. The once who do see the light will become great! This whole digitisation business and strategising to take advantage of 4th industrial revolution is what pays for my bike and the stupid expensive service I had to pay. Part of lifeyou missed an important point of his post, and that is the cost of labour.Unqualified/experienced labour is cheaper than qualified/experienced labour. Same as car services. Most people expect the mechy that works on their car at the dealership to be the most qualified person around, but they will also moan about the cost of the service (amongst other things they expect for free but money is needed to provide it to them) ChrisF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehosefat Posted October 31, 2019 Share Its called 4th industrial revolution. With the barriers of entry removed by TCP/IP its easier than ever to buy stuff from anyone anywhere. Everything is becoming open- even banks and their payment rails. Businesses must learn that they have to digitise or risk going out of business. Best example is Kodak vs Amazon book store. Both non IT companies. Amazon chose to digitise, Kodak not. It will be sad that some business owners do not see the light as they will go out of business. The once who do see the light will become great! This whole digitisation business and strategising to take advantage of 4th industrial revolution is what pays for my bike and the stupid expensive service I had to pay. Part of life Congrats on completely missing the point. His point was that we import things (which cuts away at bike shop margins) and then people refuse to pay the hourly rate for a true specialist to work on their bikes (so you get some unqualified idiot working on your bike) and then people bitch about the quality of the service. For example, an Associate attorney at a large firm (i.e. 3 years of experience up) will charge out at around R1500 per hour. Would you be willing to pay that per hour for a bike service? The saying "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" comes to mind. PhilipV and ChrisF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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