XT 12 speed vs Sram 12spd

[DieselnDust]

So saying XTR is directly comparable to XO1 is not the same as saying that XX1 is better than XTR?

 

Someone should let SRAM know that their flagship product is no better than their second tier product (or congratulate them on duping so many people into paying a premium price for something identical.)

 

 

you're cleary very immature.

Saying that X01 and XX1 is comparable with XTR is exactly that. It does not say one is crap. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by DieselnDust

[Jehosefat]

you're cleary very immature.

Saying that X01 and XX1 is comparable with XTR is exactly that. It does not say one is crap. 

 

I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:

XX1

XO1 = XTR

GX = XT

 

Whereas to my mind it should be:

XX1 = XTR

XO1 = XT

GX = SLX

 

But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:

XX1

XO1 = XTR

GX = XT

 

Whereas to my mind it should be:

XX1 = XTR

XO1 = XT

GX = SLX

 

But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better 

Except that XX1 is on a level above X01 & XTR in terms of technology and materials used, and X01 is on the same level as XTR in terms of technology and materials used. 

 

You're wrong, DiD is right. It's that simple. 

 

EDIT: Shimano does have a LOT more options at a lot more price points below XT. That's the confusing bit for people who MUST always compare like for like. Just because the XTR & XX1 are the top of each company's product heirarchy, it doesn't mean that they are on the same level as each other. Just that they're each company's flagship product. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Captain Fastbastard Mayhem

[slickjay007]

Will this shed some light?

[Jehosefat]

Except that XX1 is on a level above X01 & XTR in terms of technology and materials used, and X01 is on the same level as XTR in terms of technology and materials used. 

 

You're wrong, DiD is right. It's that simple. 

 

EDIT: Shimano does have a LOT more options at a lot more price points below XT. That's the confusing bit for people who MUST always compare like for like. Just because the XTR & XX1 are the top of each company's product heirarchy, it doesn't mean that they are on the same level as each other. Just that they're each company's flagship product. 

 

Fine, I will admit defeat

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Fine, I will admit defeat

but you haven't been "defeated". It's just something you were wrong about, it's not a war of opinions. 

[DieselnDust]

I never accused you of saying that XTR is crap. All I've disagreed with you about is your tiering of the component lines as:

XX1

XO1 = XTR

GX = XT

 

Whereas to my mind it should be:

XX1 = XTR

XO1 = XT

GX = SLX

 

But sure, go for the personal attacks if they make you feel better 

 

 

Your mind  is wrong its that simple.

 

As I've said it once and again and again and now so has the Cap,....SRAM does not tier their products according to Shimano tiering.

 

They tier their products according the focus or discipline for the target market.

XX1 = XCO Elite level product

X01 = XCO/XCM/Enduro Racing product

GX = Weekend Warrior/ MTB enthusiast level of product.

 

SRAM does not compare itself to Shimano. The design and marketing of the product is focused on usergroups and what those users want.

 

If SRAM tiered their products like Shimano they would not have ditched the front derailleur. Instead they would have designed their product to be better than Shimano at what Shimano is good at. 

SRAM has a totally different design philosophy. the SRAM rear deraillleurs since ESP has never pivoted at the mounting knuckle. they have always relied on an offset guide pulley and clutch of sorts to control the jockey pulley cage. they have always used a different cable pull ratio for their MTB derailleurs compared to Shimano.

[DieselnDust]

Will this shed some light?

 

 

that chart is not endorsed by SRAM. This isn't my opinion but from the SRAM Australia Marketing Manager when I asked him the question around tiering. IIRC it was from a magazine article of drivetrains?

[Jehosefat]

but you haven't been "defeated". It's just something you were wrong about, it's not a war of opinions. 

 

Has the debate not gone on long enough that we now have to bring in semantics?

 

Is "Fine, I will admit that I was wrong" more palatable to you?

 

If so, fine, I will admit that I was wrong.

[slickjay007]

that chart is not endorsed by SRAM. This isn't my opinion but from the SRAM Australia Marketing Manager when I asked him the question around tiering. IIRC it was from a magazine article of drivetrains?

[Wannabe]

Shimano for fishing reels, SRAM for Mtb groupsets.   

[Yyyy]

While we're about it, who's better - the Pope or the Dalai Lama?

 

On a serious note - I'm no fanboy, but I've heard some good things about the shifting on the new Shimano groups. I've yet to try it myself though. If you're going to do it, do it properly and use the Shimano chain and cassette, it's where most of the improvements have been made. Using shifter and RD with generic chain and cassette won't give you these improvement, which from what I've heard is the biggest benefit of the new system.

 

I hear you, chain and cassette are the biggest enhancements made by Shimano

 

Opinion on a combo like this?

Shimano 12 spd Cassette and Chain

Sram 12spd shifter and RD - even better if you have axs

Rotar Q ring crank

 

Just wondering if you already have a 12spd Sram setup would there be added benefit in just moving some components to Shimano (specifically that 10- 45 cassette)?

 

Just curious about customizations...... 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Has the debate not gone on long enough that we now have to bring in semantics?

 

Is "Fine, I will admit that I was wrong" more palatable to you?

 

If so, fine, I will admit that I was wrong.

what I meant to say that being corrected on something, and admitting you're wrong, is not a "defeat". Being defeated implies you've lost something, whereas this is just expanding your knowledge or correcting your previously held idea. There's no "defeat" at all.  

[DieselnDust]

I hear you, chain and cassette are the biggest enhancements made by Shimano

 

Opinion on a combo like this?

Shimano 12 spd Cassette and Chain

Sram 12spd shifter and RD - even better if you have axs

Rotar Q ring crank

 

Just wondering if you already have a 12spd Sram setup would there be added benefit in just moving some components to Shimano (specifically that 10- 45 cassette)?

 

Just curious about customizations...... 

 

 

 

technically there isn't anything wrong with that option. You will need a Microspline freehub which means a shimano rearhub, or a DT240s/350. Industry 9 may have their wheels available in Sa by year end or wait till April for Hope

[Jehosefat]

what I meant to say that being corrected on something, and admitting you're wrong, is not a "defeat". Being defeated implies you've lost something, whereas this is just expanding your knowledge or correcting your previously held idea. There's no "defeat" at all.  

 

My admission of "defeat" was a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to be condescending about it

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

My admission of "defeat" was a bit tongue-in-cheek, no need to be condescending about it

I'm not being condescending at all, but I cannot help it if you think I am. My point remains, though. It's not a "defeat" and I wish more people realised that.