Thinking about an eBike purchase

[ChrisF]

nope, no "power meter".

 

I have seen in Ausie videos that they have a "module" with an output screen that gets added to the Giant ebikes. Not sure what data is available on this ....

[aquaratza]

nope, no "power meter".

 

I have seen in Ausie videos that they have a "module" with an output screen that gets added to the Giant ebikes. Not sure what data is available on this ....

ah okay cool, was just wondering

[aquaratza]

I thought I might do a follow-up in case some of my cultural learnings help anyone.

 

I've come to own a 2017 Specialized Alloy Turbo Levo. Originally I was thinking of getting something new and carbon, but after much research it seemed like carbon wasn't worth the cost (at least for me)... and something second hand had the benefit of being both cheaper and hackable. It's on my todo list to snoop on the battery comms.

 

 

The bike's in great condition. I took it for a ride, it was perfect except for a creaking noise which sounded like dodgy pivot bearings. I took it to the local Specialized agent, "Pro" service, still creaked. I took the motor covers off and found a motor-mount nut had come off and slid between the motor and the frame. I put it back in place with Loctite, creaking gone. Lesson #1 you should be prepared to do your own servicing

 

I asked in the thread if eBikes emit rider power data (as in rider power data, like a normal power meter). In the case of a 2017 Turbo Levo, the answer is yes, they do emit rider power data.

 

Despite it's weight (23.5kg), the bike is very rideable when turned off.

Despite it's age the motor is quieter than a 2019 Giant Trance E... it also seems to be more powerful.

 

My bike didn't come with a handlebar remote, but Neil from EBikeAdventures sold me a wireless Garmin unit... it seems to work reasonably well. It is possible to retrofit the 2018 wired Levo remote to a 2017 frame, but blergh, more cables?

 

The bike integrates really well with a Garmin Edge 530. Loads of data fields are exposed, like battery as a percentage, cadence, power meter data, assistance mode, etc. I haven't checked everything. This doesn't require any third-party apps on the Edge 530.

 

The bike competes favourably against my friend's 2020 Carbon Turbo Levo S-Works with a 700Wh battery. It appears that the technology really hasn't advanced that much. Maybe the response latency is better, but they both climb the hill.

 

For longer rides I got an extension battery installed today by Neil from EBikeAdventures. He did a really good job of installing it. I still have the original wiring harness/Rosenberger plug. Neil made a small hole in the top motor cover. The covers can be fairly easily replaced, so I'm not fussed. This brings the bike's power supply up to ~750Wh.

 

 

Finally, and this is another awesome/scary thing Neil showed me: the battery control interface isn't waterproof on these bikes! Which is crazy. Turns out my battery has had some water leak into it already, so I'm going to seal this up asap. The control membrane is easily removed using bare fingers.

 

Replacement bearings are available for the motors from Performance Line Bearings, but Neil also stocks them. The motors do seem to experience water ingress fairly easily, despite the fancy gasket. 

[ChrisF]

ENJOY !!

[jackievs]

Help me understand? I ride for fitness and social. I'm not planning on getting rid of my existing bike, I just figure I should have the option of joining eBike rides and be able to keep up.

I would join a new group... what is the point riding an e-bike?  Rather get an off road motorcycle ...

[thebob]

I would join a new group... what is the point riding an e-bike?  Rather get an off road motorcycle ...

If you'd ridden both, you'd understand how far from the truth that statement is

[aquaratza]

I would join a new group... what is the point riding an e-bike?  Rather get an off road motorcycle ...

Your signature is "Do not allow the skepticism to kill the initiative", which is pretty ironic

 

It's definitely not a motorbike. I think it's a different sport but still cycling - like the difference between track cycling and road cycling, or downhill vs cross country.

 

I'm discovering that there are a lot of nuances to it. Like, if you want to do a long ride over hills/mountains (as I do), you can't bomb around in turbo mode, you'll just run out of battery. You have to think tactically about power usage.

 

You also have to think ahead a lot more than a non-eBike; there's a power transfer latency, so if you're heading into something that requires a speed reduction you have to pre-empt it. If you want to change gears you have to pre-empt the gear change so that there's enough time to reduce power to the drivetrain. My bike is heavy (almost double the weight of my normal bike), so the handling dynamics are very different, particularly on more downhill-oriented trails.

 

And I definitely haven't slouched on any of the rides I've done so far. Garmin indicates those rides are on-par with normal rides and often slightly more intense.

Edited September 15, 2020 by aquaratza

[Spafsack]

On a different note but kind of related. My wife does not have the time to train and i still want us to ride together during the week / weekends, without leaving her behind. A friend i spoke to said he bought his wife an e bike now she keeps up, pushes him   And she is still getting a good work out, lets say 20km ride each time. I just bought her a silverback AL5 with a few mods, small, so what would be a good e bike option to look at, second hand is fine, older is fine, i really dont have bucks to splash around. Can a person get something decent for her for say 40K? I would need to sell or trade in the AL5 though as well. My same friend also said on the last race they did together, think it was a 40 kay with hectic elevation, his wife stayed with him all the way, battery still had 50% power, she was on a second hand giant liv e bike. I think this is cool as you can do races together, if they allow same start times, just looking for possibilities here....thanx all.   

[Let's Ride]

Personally I think they awesome. Dad has one and he would normally not get out and ride as much. 

 

If you can cover more distance with one then why not. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Let's Ride

[rudi-h]

If you can ride 250W continuously weighing in at 89kg, I'm guessing your FTP must be around the 350W mark.  Those are good numbers that should place you near or below a sub-3hr CTCT or mid-field in the Epic.

 

To maintain that level of fitness you clearly have a healthy and active lifestyle, so IMO it would be silly to "convert" just for the sake of it.  Part of the fun of cycling is about going fast, another part of the fun of cycling is also a sense achievement.  Not sure if i'd trade one for the other, not while still "tearing up the road" so to speak.

[aquaratza]

If you can ride 250W continuously weighing in at 89kg, I'm guessing your FTP must be around the 350W mark.  Those are good numbers that should place you near or below a sub-3hr CTCT or mid-field in the Epic.

 

To maintain that level of fitness you clearly have a healthy and active lifestyle, so IMO it would be silly to "convert" just for the sake of it.  Part of the fun of cycling is about going fast, another part of the fun of cycling is also a sense achievement.  Not sure if i'd trade one for the other, not while still "tearing up the road" so to speak.

I ride, on average, 7-10 hours per week. I've averaged a monthly elevation gain of 9000m for the last 9 months - this excludes this month's eBike rides. I haven't done an FTP test in some time, but based on my normal rides (I ride with a power meter on my normal bike) intervals.icu estimates I have an FTP of 328w currently. I weigh 93kg at present (ergh) - so my power/weight ratio isn't great.

 

I have reasonable strength but I lack technical handling skills, I'm super scared of any kind of speed (CTCT/road) and I'm just generally a conservative rider because I don't want to be hospitalised - so I take it easy, mostly

 

I'm internally still a bit undecided as to whether or not the purchase of an eBike was a good idea. I love the technological aspects of it (I'm hoping to attach a CANBus logger soon!) and I think it's helped my confidence in technical obstacles (I now have a better idea of exactly what's needed to get over something). It's also great having the ability to get home quickly when necessary (I ride to the trails).

 

But it isn't all perfect - I can really only justify riding it with a subset of friends or on my own and it does defuse the personal achievement aspect of riding a course. Have to be careful to not be lazy when riding it.

 

It's an experiment

Edited September 29, 2020 by aquaratza

[ChrisF]

On a different note but kind of related. My wife does not have the time to train and i still want us to ride together during the week / weekends, without leaving her behind. A friend i spoke to said he bought his wife an e bike now she keeps up, pushes him   And she is still getting a good work out, lets say 20km ride each time. I just bought her a silverback AL5 with a few mods, small, so what would be a good e bike option to look at, second hand is fine, older is fine, i really dont have bucks to splash around. Can a person get something decent for her for say 40K? I would need to sell or trade in the AL5 though as well. My same friend also said on the last race they did together, think it was a 40 kay with hectic elevation, his wife stayed with him all the way, battery still had 50% power, she was on a second hand giant liv e bike. I think this is cool as you can do races together, if they allow same start times, just looking for possibilities here....thanx all.   

 

Must it be a "MTB"?

 

Some very affordable "commuter ebikes", which could be used as gravel grinders.   Giant Durbanville has a nice one on the floor at the moment.

 

 

 

PS - the races that I have seen typically requires a separate start time for the ebikes.  Some have the ebikes starting earlier, which means she can roll forward a 100m and wait for you to start ....  As long as she does not "pace" you to a podium nobody will care ...

[Spafsack]

Hi Chris, yip, it must be an MTB as we do loops from our house into the mountains. XC and a bit of single track, nice uphill's. 29 wheels, small frame will do. I hear you about the races, well noted. It seems Giant have nice affordable ish ladies e mtb's, not really sure what other brands to look at to be honest. 

Going back to when we ride together, the loop is 20km, if we do a race she will also only do the 25km, so i recon even an entry level e bike will have enough battery power....

[ChrisF]

Hi Chris, yip, it must be an MTB as we do loops from our house into the mountains. XC and a bit of single track, nice uphill's. 29 wheels, small frame will do. I hear you about the races, well noted. It seems Giant have nice affordable ish ladies e mtb's, not really sure what other brands to look at to be honest. 

Going back to when we ride together, the loop is 20km, if we do a race she will also only do the 25km, so i recon even an entry level e bike will have enough battery power....

 

I looked at the following brands, in February :

 

- Spez ... I really like the 2019 Turbo Levo.    The 2020 spec was downgraded badly     If you can find a 2018 model, WITH full service record, and confirmed warranty from Spez that may be a good option.  There was a recall on their motors, and they have extended the warranty.  So as long as Spez confirms in writing your prospective bike is fully covered then it would be a damn good buy.

 

- Giant .... I LOVE the Trance E !!  Giant use the YAMAHA motor, in the 2021 range of bikes a few more manufacturers are using the Yamaha motor.  The fact that is an American bike is a blessing in disguise .... LITTLE info on the web, almost nothing on EMBN, as they are Europe based .... BUT, it also means a speed assist limit of 32 km/h, which is seriously nice for those tar sections to the trails.  And the fact that they have the "Liv" female version catches a specific market segment

 

- SCOTT ... frames made by Giant, but they use the BOSCH motor.  The Bosch motor is used by many other manufacturers, and in time spares may be more readily available for this ...  The Scott is tuned to Euro standards and limited to 25km/h assist.  Of the bikes I looked at, the SQUARE downtube of the Scott looked the worst by far .... And I was VERY happy with my previous Scott, so dissapointed I could not stay with the brand.

 

- TREK .... uhm ja .... after three visits to Best Bikes I still dont know which Trek ebikes are available in SA .... they (different salesmen) were too busy upselling me to the top of line model they had on the floor ...

 

- TITAN ... dont think they have an ebike in their range .. not yet ... hoping they bring out an affordable option ....

 

- There are so many more brands available overseas, but sadly not that many here ....

[Spafsack]

Hi Chris, thanx for the comments, ideas, advise. I am looking at Centurion as well, see they based in Cpt, only heard good things about that brand.

[ChrisF]

Well worth contacting these guys - https://chilledsquirrel.com/

 

 

A friend brought in an e-commuter from Europe.  And when he needed some repair work done none of the regular shops could help.  By the sounds of it this crowd is GOOD.