99er Cycle Tour

[MongooseMan]

  On 2/8/2022 at 5:04 PM, bleedToWin said:

Yes, that is why they use an adjusted winner time.

Edit: If by adjustment factor you mean the Beta value - That won't have any effect on the A-batch seeding if the winning time is not adjusted.

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Sorry, I meant the penalty.

((((Time / Winner) – 1) / Beta) x 100) + Penalty

For example, boland 60miler last year had a penalty of 15.

But ppa Sportive 3 had an adjusted winners time of 15mins.

I'm trying to understand when they will use which. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by MongooseMan

[bleedToWin]

  On 2/8/2022 at 5:25 PM, MongooseMan said:

Sorry, I meant the penalty.

((((Time / Winner) – 1) / Beta) x 100) + Penalty

For example, boland 60miler last year had a penalty of 15.

But ppa Sportive 3 had an adjusted winners time of 15mins.

I'm trying to understand when they will use which. 

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No, the penalty is for events that are older than 6 months.

Adjusted winner time to account for a field that is not as strong as a typical CTCT. This shifts the bell curve.
Beta to account for route difficulty and conditions. This stretches or compresses the bell curve.
Penalty for older events. This accounts for uncertainty of whether you can currently repeat said performance.*

*Penalties are grossly unfair the better your seeding. If you have a 10 seeding +6 is much more damaging compared to someone with a 30 seeding.

[MongooseMan]

  On 2/8/2022 at 6:08 PM, bleedToWin said:

No, the penalty is for events that are older than 6 months.

Adjusted winner time to account for a field that is not as strong as a typical CTCT. This shifts the bell curve.
Beta to account for route difficulty and conditions. This stretches or compresses the bell curve.
Penalty for older events. This accounts for uncertainty of whether you can currently repeat said performance.*

*Penalties are grossly unfair the better your seeding. If you have a 10 seeding +6 is much more damaging compared to someone with a 30 seeding.

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That mostly makes sense, except the race I mentioned (boland) was less than 6 months ago, and had a penalty of 15 from the first time the results were published (or, at least, it did for me). 

Anyway, thanks for the explanation, it's useful to know how it should work in theory. 

[bleedToWin]

  On 2/8/2022 at 6:11 PM, MongooseMan said:

That mostly makes sense, except the race I mentioned (boland) was less than 6 months ago, and had a penalty of 15 from the first time the results were published (or, at least, it did for me). 

Anyway, thanks for the explanation, it's useful to know how it should work in theory. 

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Boland 100 Miler? That's a mistake, and not like that on my profile. You should contact them.

[MongooseMan]

  On 2/8/2022 at 6:33 PM, bleedToWin said:

Boland 100 Miler? That's a mistake, and not like that on my profile. You should contact them.

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No, 60 miler. 

Even now, if I look at 3 races from last year, the penalties don't make sense for boland:

Ctct (October) : 15

Boland (October) : 30

Ppa (December) : 15

(this is only academic. I had a crap race at boland, so even with 0 penalty it wouldn't be a useful result 🙈) 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by MongooseMan

[bleedToWin]

For what it's worth the Perdeberg and Winelands races have been processed for seeding and reflects in PPA road seeding, but for some reason not yet on RaceTec website...

['Dale]

The final 20 kms after the bruggie innie dippie gonna be intense 🥵

Edited February 8, 2022 by 'Dale

[Skubarra]

  On 2/8/2022 at 6:36 PM, MongooseMan said:

No, 60 miler. 

Even now, if I look at 3 races from last year, the penalties don't make sense for boland:

Ctct (October) : 15

Boland (October) : 30

Ppa (December) : 15

(this is only academic. I had a crap race at boland, so even with 0 penalty it wouldn't be a useful result 🙈) 

 

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You are looking at your mtb seeding not your road seeding... 😂

Try the other button 🙈

[MongooseMan]

  On 2/8/2022 at 9:08 PM, Skubarra said:

You are looking at your mtb seeding not your road seeding... 😂

Try the other button 🙈

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Yes, it was 🙈

But the road seeding still shows boland 60miler with 15 penalty. 

Anyway, over it. Enjoy the ride on Saturday from whatever group the algorithm has placed you in 😁

[Skubarra]

  On 2/9/2022 at 5:21 AM, MongooseMan said:

Yes, it was 🙈

But the road seeding still shows boland 60miler with 15 penalty. 

Anyway, over it. Enjoy the ride on Saturday from whatever group the algorithm has placed you in 😁

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It might be that the 60 miler is penalised because it was the short route and not the full 100 miler - Racetec is not always consistent with these type of penalties

[Jewbacca]

  On 2/9/2022 at 5:28 AM, Skubarra said:

It might be that the 60 miler is penalised because it was the short route and not the full 100 miler - Racetec is not always consistent with these type of penalties

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As far as I remember, lite versions of a race carry penalties straight off the bat. Say the winner of the 100 miler is 0, the winner of the half distance race cannot also be 0. In theory the long version would have a stronger field and one would need to be stronger to achieve a similar result. 

So it makes sense that the short race starts off at 0+15.

Otherwise people would be doing the half distance races and sneaking into @ on the results 

[K20Champ]

looks like we could have a big bunch,  group A, B & C all together fairly early, unless some break- aways / attacks happen fairly early 

[bleedToWin]

  On 2/9/2022 at 10:14 AM, K20Champ said:

looks like we could have a big bunch,  group A, B & C all together fairly early, unless some break- aways / attacks happen fairly early 

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Yeah, I feel like the 2min gaps should have been revisited after the route change. Going over Vissers most bunches would have split and then later merge with the halves of the slower and faster riders from the batches around them resulting in groups more or less the original size. Now if two groups merge it might get really big.

[Pure Savage]

  On 2/9/2022 at 10:14 AM, K20Champ said:

looks like we could have a big bunch,  group A, B & C all together fairly early, unless some break- aways / attacks happen fairly early 

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Unless there are people driving the pace in B and C that are out of position then its probably unlikely. 

[Pure Savage]

What if one tells them you identify as vaccinated? 

If you can identify as 20 years younger, surely this should easy enough. 

[Mamil]

  On 2/9/2022 at 11:35 AM, Pure Savage said:

What if one tells them you identify as vaccinated? 

If you can identify as 20 years younger, surely this should easy enough. 

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I'm 32 years younger than my age according to Garmin.... Which is ridiculous... Someone should tell my hairline