Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[Bro Derek]

8 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Law for whom?

Commuters and people using bikes as transport definitely can't afford one. Hell, a Varia is way out of my cycling budget. 

If we are talking ideals, they should probably remove the road maintenance budget, make small electric cars mandatory in cities, or better, electric bikes, ban large footprint 1 person vehicles and spend that money on creating better public transport

Cars are largely unnecessary, but motonormativity 

 

1 hour ago, Bro Derek said:

A large motorized vehicle should have a radar that buzzes if something is protruding into it's space in front of it.
 

Or, as I said, remove most of the vehicles from the road. In the cities I have lived in that have made cars mostly redundant, I have always been happiest and less stressed.

You also find people treat others more like people as they are constantly in each others space without a 2 ton metal death bubble separating them

south Africa is a terribly segregated society. We leave our walled castle in our enclosed metal bubble, get annoyed at other groups of road users, park, moan about the parking, then go to a shop/mall/gym and moan about other shop/mall/gym users that we feel are in our way while wearing airpods, then finish whatever we are doing and go home to our castle. 

in SA 70% of people don't know the names of their neighbours.

If we had more car free zones, people would be surrounded by people, which creates interaction and humanizing of groups and people we don't know.

This is not an opinion, this is based on examples and studies already done.

Until we can see the car as the problem, we will remain in this cycle. It's easy to hate 'cyclists', 'them', and other groups if we constantly dehumanize them. 

Motonormativity makes us all try to justify things from the point of view of a car or a driver, instead of looking at things as they are. Cars are only important because cars are seemingly important. 1 person driving around in a double cab ranger should be illegal. I person in an SUV, illegal. There is absolutely no need for it, especially in CBDs and areas that would be far better served with pedestrian/cycle traffic.

This is all not going away until peoples small egos can realise their car doesn't make their willy bigger and you don't need a 4x4 to drive to the Kalahari on dirt roads once every 3 years

 

There we go @ChrisF

Just in case you were going to reply without reading again 😘

[Robbie Stewart]

2 hours ago, Bro Derek said:

Not you or anyone can tell me you need a double cab bakkie to visit clients alone

 

I agree, I don't need a double cab 4x4 to drive alone to Brackenfell from Sunningdale every morning, but it sure as hell is fun, and because of that I'm not swapping it for a half-loaf little car. Your point is moot. I'm unwilling to give up my bakkie for the greater good. Thus we have a stalemate. 

I just finished a ride, wearing mostly black and at the last minute shoved a flashing red light on the seat post because of this thread. I encountered one vehicle pull into the road ahead of me while he was looking over his shoulder to his left to see if there was any oncoming traffic. Nothing I was wearing or not wearing would have made a difference. Nor if I had the brightest flashing light on my bars. The driver simply wasn't looking my way. I shrugged my shoulders, dabbed the brakes and let him past without a fuss. Life continued, my ride was good. 

[Bro Derek]

16 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I agree, I don't need a double cab 4x4 to drive alone to Brackenfell from Sunningdale every morning, but it sure as hell is fun, and because of that I'm not swapping it for a half-loaf little car. Your point is moot. I'm unwilling to give up my bakkie for the greater good. Thus we have a stalemate. 

 

The above just proved my point further, it does not make it  'Moot'. Quite literally the opposite

YOU are the problem. With your massive car for no reason. Because you think it's cool and society tells you that it's cool. It isn't functional and it takes up massive road footprint unnecessarily.

Until you and people like you can embrace function, rational usage and want to start using alternatives that benefit everyone, all these self gratifying posts about how THEY use the road while riding is Moot

Motonormativity and small willy syndrome proven in just a handful of posts 

 

Edited August 17, 2025 by Bro Derek

[Mook]

35 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

I agree, I don't need a double cab 4x4 to drive alone to Brackenfell from Sunningdale every morning, but it sure as hell is fun, and because of that I'm not swapping it for a half-loaf little car. Your point is moot. I'm unwilling to give up my bakkie for the greater good. Thus we have a stalemate. 

I just finished a ride, wearing mostly black and at the last minute shoved a flashing red light on the seat post because of this thread. I encountered one vehicle pull into the road ahead of me while he was looking over his shoulder to his left to see if there was any oncoming traffic. Nothing I was wearing or not wearing would have made a difference. Nor if I had the brightest flashing light on my bars. The driver simply wasn't looking my way. I shrugged my shoulders, dabbed the brakes and let him past without a fuss. Life continued, my ride was good. 

I drive a DC 4x4 because I refuse to spend hard earned money of resurfacing my driveway. I rather spend my hard earned money of a new bike and fluorescent cycling socks.

 

[Mook]

30 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

The above just proved my point further, it does not make it  'Moot'. Quite literally the opposite

YOU are the problem. With your massive car for no reason. Because you think it's cool and society tells you that it's cool. It isn't functional and it takes up massive road footprint unnecessarily.

Until you and people like you can embrace function, rational usage and want to start using alternatives that benefit everyone, all these self gratifying posts about how THEY use the road while riding is Moot

Motonormativity and small willy syndrome proven in just a handful of posts 

 

Wellington Main Road, Sunday the 17th, 10:17

I did not stalk this bunch on purpose - just happened to go in the same direction. With hardly any cars parked on the side, they were happy to occupy the entire left lane whilst fully aware of me.

No radar or bright kit will ever solve this problem ........................ actually no medication either. Poor road road surface ------------ neh, they were on gravel bikes.

Just say'n 

[RobynE 🚵‍♀️]

25 minutes ago, Mook said:

Wellington Main Road, Sunday the 17th, 10:17

Even my 10yo knows not to ride like this 😞 

[openmind]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

Wellington Main Road, Sunday the 17th, 10:17

I did not stalk this bunch on purpose - just happened to go in the same direction. With hardly any cars parked on the side, they were happy to occupy the entire left lane whilst fully aware of me.

No radar or bright kit will ever solve this problem ........................ actually no medication either. Poor road road surface ------------ neh, they were on gravel bikes.

Just say'n 

I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a problem. It's a Sunday morning in a country town, not much traffic and there is a whole other lane for you to pass in. Live and let live.

[Bro Derek]

1 hour ago, Mook said:

Wellington Main Road, Sunday the 17th, 10:17

I did not stalk this bunch on purpose - just happened to go in the same direction. With hardly any cars parked on the side, they were happy to occupy the entire left lane whilst fully aware of me.

No radar or bright kit will ever solve this problem ........................ actually no medication either. Poor road road surface ------------ neh, they were on gravel bikes.

Just say'n 

Is there another lane to pass slow moving traffic?

Again, you're seeing the problem from a car/driver point of view and all other road users are the problem when sharing the road with cars.

Motonormativity. 

I will type it 500 times until people can see that the problem IS cars and how they are used/perceived and how THEY share the road when they shouldn't be there a lot of the time anyway. 

Until this entire perspective shifts, none of the peacock clothes, flashing lights and self gratifying behaviour arguments and anecdotes mean anything

People keep saying things to 'prove me wrong' but instead keep showing just how ingrained motonormativity is in our heads.

That perspective is what stops anything from changing. 

[El Duderino]

2 minutes ago, Bro Derek said:

Is there another lane to pass slow moving traffic?

Again, you're seeing the problem from a car/driver point of view and all other road users are the problem when sharing the road with cars.

Motonormativity. 

I will type it 500 times until people can see that the problem IS cars and how they are used/perceived and how THEY share the road when they shouldn't be there a lot of the time anyway. 

Until this entire perspective shifts, none of the peacock clothes, flashing lights and self gratifying behaviour arguments and anecdotes mean anything

People keep saying things to 'prove me wrong' but instead keep showing just how ingrained motonormativity is in our heads.

That perspective is what stops anything from changing. 

You're never going to convince anyone here. Motornormativity is like heteronormativity, it is so endemic, you will struggle to get people to see the issue from the perspective of the other side. And we live in a country where victim blaming is ubiquitous. You get hijacked (why do you drive a BMW or Toyota?) or you get run over by a car on your bicycle and people debate flashing lights and the color of your clothes, instead of the bigger problem of inconsiderate, inattentive drivers. Meanwhile, South Africa has 25 deaths per 100 000 due to traffic accidents. One of the highest in the world. That's not because of cyclists riding abreast in dark clothes. 

[Jbr]

2 hours ago, Mook said:

hardly any cars parked on the side, they were happy to occupy the entire left lane whilst fully aware of me.

Were they supposed to ride on the empty parking bays ? And then sverve onto the lane every time there's a curb ? what's preventing you from overtaking here ? if there is no trafic I don't see a problem, I'm not saying that because these are close friends of mine. If instead of cyclists there was a car going the same speed or a tractor with only the driver in it, noone would have anything to say about it, yet it would be a single person taking all that space instead of 4+ in your photo.

Edited August 17, 2025 by Jbr

[DuToit Van Den Bergh]

2 hours ago, Mook said:

Wellington Main Road, Sunday the 17th, 10:17

I did not stalk this bunch on purpose - just happened to go in the same direction. With hardly any cars parked on the side, they were happy to occupy the entire left lane whilst fully aware of me.

No radar or bright kit will ever solve this problem ........................ actually no medication either. Poor road road surface ------------ neh, they were on gravel bikes.

Just say'n 

I was in this group this morning. You were driving extremely slow in fact so slow you should probably have pulled off. We passed you wide and safely in the right lane.

In fact we hardly noticed you and just proceeded to go about our business. We never saw you again and was not in your way or anyone else's.

Your antagonistic attitude and hostility towards a group of friends enjoying a Sunday out to Bains is what is uncalled for. 

Perhaps you have some locked up anger and emotional resentment issues. 

Which I sincerely hope you can resolve, so that you can also enjoy your Sunday mornings a little more in future.

Also you shouldn't be taking pictures while driving. 😉

The fact that you explicitly state that you did not stalk us, is also a bit suspicious and weird, as no one asked. Now a weird possible stalker also has photos of me. #justsaying

Edited August 17, 2025 by DuToit Van Den Bergh

[Jbr]

I forgot what I came here for, not sure if this was posted here before or not. But it seems if we have something to say, this is an opportunity that shouldn't be missed, hopefully PPA is involved with it (If it's not just about putting circles everywhere) : https://www.facebook.com/CityofCT/posts/pfbid02swXhcTsgnHpN6VwcUSPTtz1pcWW7Z9LQWnBviGGtC5ZQtjVBynjLXzpRzEEjKfVrl?__cft__[0]=AZVhYIQe8-ML7Rdl-FfxUSqlWIEj-1sjRiRP5_2zs0HPVZnTdviCNoQMrFl1HInsVQ0mVP4lJsuYpErnn9y7fLfGxj84twy6Lf4WwILkEvGPNKsF5x0_S9-7App-R6VbmGt-m4t9tOBd_5ilFUIdcNOGwaDpY-ifGOdf54sxOOwBD3JCpOoLqvpfpbRuY5wmByWHs6kOcfQJ6shiZDZ2N98s&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Edited August 17, 2025 by Jbr

[WaldoZ]

46 minutes ago, DuToit Van Den Bergh said:

I was in this group this morning. You were driving extremely slow in fact so slow you should probably have pulled off. We passed you wide and safely in the right lane.

In fact we hardly noticed you and just proceeded to go about our business. We never saw you again and was not in your way or anyone else's.

Your antagonistic attitude and hostility towards a group of friends enjoying a Sunday out to Bains is what is uncalled for. 

Perhaps you have some locked up anger and emotional resentment issues. 

Which I sincerely hope you can resolve, so that you can also enjoy your Sunday mornings a little more in future.

Also you shouldn't be taking pictures while driving. 😉

The fact that you explicitly state that you did not stalk us, is also a bit suspicious and weird, as no one asked. Now a weird possible stalker also has photos of me. #justsaying

Is it just me or do I look fat in that photo?
 

Anyway also a bit out of context photo and you can really say anything there and make up stories. The whole situation was us passing an extremely slow moving car that looked like it wanted to park. It now appears it could have been a stalker waiting to get some pics of us 😁

[Mook]

43 minutes ago, DuToit Van Den Bergh said:

Your antagonistic attitude and hostility towards a group of friends enjoying a Sunday out to Bains is what is uncalled for. 

Perhaps you have some locked up anger and emotional resentment issues.

Which I sincerely hope you can resolve so that you can also enjoy your Sunday mornings a little more in future.

@DuToit Van Den Bergh, you are wasting your condescending rant on the wrong driver, who also happens to be an experienced cyclist.

This very outburst of yours proves my point that many cyclists, like you for example, don't really give 2 hoots about the opinions drivers have of cyclist behavior in general.

Perhaps you and you friends should contemplate why I was driving slowly. Perhaps it had something to do with bicycles all over the road ahead of me while there was clearly more than ample space to stay single file until you reached the outskirts of town.

Mutual respect and consideration from both sides ........ surely you can grasp these concepts.

You can relax, I am quite happy and content with my life.

 

 

[DuToit Van Den Bergh]

As I said we were coming from behind you and you were going extremely slow.

Also we passed far and wide and safe because you were going slow. Read the first part again.

The point you are trying to make is based on a lie. Which is perplexing and the conclusion that is must be some other form of resentment that you carry.

Anyway, there's not much more to the story than that folks.

It was as simple as that.

"Driver gets angry because cyclists pass him."

[WaldoZ]

6 minutes ago, Mook said:

@DuToit Van Den Bergh, you are wasting your condescending rant on the wrong driver, who also happens to be an experienced cyclist.

This very outburst of yours proves my point that many cyclists, like you for example, don't really give 2 hoots about the opinions drivers have of cyclist behavior in general.

Perhaps you and you friends should contemplate why I was driving slowly. Perhaps it had something to do with bicycles all over the road ahead of me while there was clearly more than ample space to stay single file until you reached the outskirts of town.

Mutual respect and consideration from both sides ........ surely you can grasp these concepts.

You can relax, I am quite happy and content with my life.

 

 

You were driving slowly in front of us 🤣