Fork Debate

[love2fly]

At your weight the 34 will be a much better fork. the 32 is about weight saving and so it's quite floppy. the damper on the Evo is also not great at all. You'd be surprised how much better a Fit4 or Grip2 damper is. But first, we need more info to really determine where the problem lies.

 

1. When exactly does the fork not feel great? Most people feel this on fast descents, but you don't do much of this. Is it on corrugated dirt road at speed? I don't imaging uphills will be an issue. Descents, twisties with loose sand. I just never feel front is planted. Tried setup ad infinitum. Ardent race and love it at softer psi as have widish rims (23mm). Also get my weight well fwd.

 

2. Is it when you are breaking? or when you full gas on a straight? Twisties only

 

3.Presumably you ride a 29er? What bike is it fitted to? Adrenalin. Factory spec is 100mm fork but brought in by Willie Engelbrecht who suggests 120mm better. Problem is my 120mm is the 30mm fork and the 32 is 100....

 

4. Do you know what offset the fork has? (typically either 44mm or 51mm) Rake = 51mm. What difference does this make?

 

5. Do you have any volume spacers in the fork? (you really should if possible) Have no idea. Will check when get it serviced.

 

FYI. you've changed from a 120mm fork, which has more travel so likely a plusher ride, to a 100mm fork which is likely to be less plush and probably why you prefer to ride it at lower than recommended pressure. The 100mm fork would have steepened your bike's head angle quite a bit, doing this has made your bike's handling feel more sketchy. It's pretty well known that slacker head angles result in more confidence inspiring steering. You've gone the wrong way in this regard. I set fork up according to my sag at around 20%, as well as making sure I use most but generally not all of the travel after a ride. Comparing to the pressure suggested by Fox for my weight I'm on the softer side. What you say about the head angle makes sense. In essence the reason for my post is to get a definitive answer as to rather going back to 30mm and 120mm travel (which many would say is too much for a 30mm but Ive had no spaghetti feeling), or stick with the 100mm 32mm.Apparently the thru axle makes a difference, I'm again not convinced. Am slightly leaning towards the 30mm. PS I don't run out of travel.

 

To make matters worse, running the 100mm fork at lower than suggested pressure has made the effective head angle even steeper. (what % is your sag at now?). Throw an Evo damper into this mix and you have a recipe for disaster. It's quite likely that you're not running your rebound fast enough (or that the Evo damper just struggles to keep up) and that you're fork is packing up on successive hits (e.g. corrugation) and you end up riding way to far forward over your front wheel (feeling lank sketchy) with effectively no shock travel left. Maybe I should try to speed up the rebound - Fox suggest for my weight I set at a couple of clicks from closed?

[love2fly]

I only have a short section of chattery rocky terrain (Cradle loop in JHB) and in the odd race but in looking after the bike and the rims etc I keep it medium calm...

I reckon the OP does not ride many chattery rocky type terrain.

That is where you will feel the main difference. The 32 will flex back and forth easier vs the 34. I suppose you could compare them by standing over you bike grab a handful of front brake and push back and forth. 

 

I agree with grease monkey. I wouldnt run anything less than 35mm stanchions. My personal favorite is 38mm.

[Wimmas]

I went from a 2018 RS Recon 100mm to a 2020 FOX Rhythm 34 120mm....one massive difference. I am absolutely sold on the FOX.

[Rigardt@Scott]

Wouldn't the 34 be more suited to DH or Enduro? Where I ride sadly descending us only a too small part of my ride.

The ongoing issue and I'm hijacking my own thread - is that on looser surfaces I don't have huge confidence in the front end... And that's despite having infinitely played with setup and Tyre pressure. 2.35 Ardent Race....

 

 

No, 34s and Pikes are trail forks. They are even being specced on more aggressive XC bikes. I am also heavy, and can tell you the difference between a 32 and 34 is day and night. I'd say a Lyrik or 36 is overkill for the riding you are describing though...

[Steady Spin]

Also... 2.35 on a 23mm ID rim will be squirmy under lower pressures and the shape of the tyre is too balloon shaped which sacrifices cornering. 

[love2fly]

Sorry I don't buy that. Mine are actually 25mm....i had squirm on my old Novatec Dragons that were like 18mm or something stupid and the front squirmed like crazy but no squirm whatsoever. Can run my front at 1.1 bar without hassle if it's rough. My brother rides 2.35 on Kovee Elite 23mm and no hassle.

Ninos Spark ships with 25mm and 2.35

post="3786862" timestamp="1617964828"]

 

Also... 2.35 on a 23mm ID rim will be squirmy under lower pressures and the shape of the tyre is too balloon shaped which sacrifices cornering.

[Steady Spin]

Fair point.

 

The problem is definitely somewhere between the front and rear axles then. 

[dasilvarsa]

"on looser surfaces I don't have huge confidence in the front end."

 

I think most people Have This Feeling. "Most Falls Happen Here"

 

Have you Tried the Original Ardent 2.4 (Not Race) ?

 

Was the RockShox Better ?

[love2fly]

Like the rider 

Fair point.

 

The problem is definitely somewhere between the front and read axles then. 

[love2fly]

"on looser surfaces I don't have huge confidence in the front end."

 

I think most people Have This Feeling. "Most Falls Happen Here"

 

Have you Tried the Original Ardent 2.4 (Not Race) ?

 

Was the RockShox Better ?

 

Good to know....Moved from Ardent to race. It is similar, seems to steer lighter as less deep tread.

 

I find both forks pretty similar.

[dasilvarsa]

Good to know....Moved from Ardent to race. It is similar, seems to steer lighter as less deep tread.

 

I find both forks pretty similar.

I've Also Had Both in Front - I feel the Ardent "Bites Better" on Soft Sand but It's a Slower Tyre.

[Rock Guy]

Some comments below.

 

I don't know hey, the Fox is supposed to be a better fork than the RS. But like many others have mentioned, it is very far from being a great fork. Maybe the 100mm is just not working for you and you miss the extra 20mm.

 

You didn't perhaps change anything else at the same time? Like maybe a different stem or handlebar? A wider handlebar and shorter stem would also improve handling quite a bit.

 

 

 

At your weight the 34 will be a much better fork. the 32 is about weight saving and so it's quite floppy. the damper on the Evo is also not great at all. You'd be surprised how much better a Fit4 or Grip2 damper is. But first, we need more info to really determine where the problem lies.

 

1. When exactly does the fork not feel great? Most people feel this on fast descents, but you don't do much of this. Is it on corrugated dirt road at speed? I don't imaging uphills will be an issue. Descents, twisties with loose sand. I just never feel front is planted. Tried setup ad infinitum. Ardent race and love it at softer psi as have widish rims (23mm). Also get my weight well fwd.

 

2. Is it when you are breaking? or when you full gas on a straight? Twisties only

 

3.Presumably you ride a 29er? What bike is it fitted to? Adrenalin. Factory spec is 100mm fork but brought in by Willie Engelbrecht who suggests 120mm better. Problem is my 120mm is the 30mm fork and the 32 is 100....

 

4. Do you know what offset the fork has? (typically either 44mm or 51mm) Rake = 51mm. What difference does this make? If you were on a slacker bike this could have resulted in less than ideal steering, but I doubt that would be the case for the Adrenaline.

 

5. Do you have any volume spacers in the fork? (you really should if possible) Have no idea. Will check when get it serviced. If you're not running out of travel then this shouldn't be a problem (You don't ride trails or drops, so no need to worry about bottom out then).

 

FYI. you've changed from a 120mm fork, which has more travel so likely a plusher ride, to a 100mm fork which is likely to be less plush and probably why you prefer to ride it at lower than recommended pressure. The 100mm fork would have steepened your bike's head angle quite a bit, doing this has made your bike's handling feel more sketchy. It's pretty well known that slacker head angles result in more confidence inspiring steering. You've gone the wrong way in this regard. I set fork up according to my sag at around 20% (This is actually less sag than I expected, you could try running the fork at lower pressure and adding a volume spacer or two), as well as making sure I use most but generally not all of the travel after a ride. Comparing to the pressure suggested by Fox for my weight I'm on the softer side. What you say about the head angle makes sense. In essence the reason for my post is to get a definitive answer as to rather going back to 30mm and 120mm travel (which many would say is too much for a 30mm but Ive had no spaghetti feeling), or stick with the 100mm 32mm.Apparently the thru axle makes a difference, I'm again not convinced. Am slightly leaning towards the 30mm. PS I don't run out of travel.

 

To make matters worse, running the 100mm fork at lower than suggested pressure has made the effective head angle even steeper. (what % is your sag at now?). Throw an Evo damper into this mix and you have a recipe for disaster. It's quite likely that you're not running your rebound fast enough (or that the Evo damper just struggles to keep up) and that you're fork is packing up on successive hits (e.g. corrugation) and you end up riding way to far forward over your front wheel (feeling lank sketchy) with effectively no shock travel left. Maybe I should try to speed up the rebound - Fox suggest for my weight I set at a couple of clicks from closed? I don't think this will help you through the twisty sandy stuff. If you're not running out of travel and teh fork isn't getting packed down on successive hits you're rebound is probably fine where it is.

 

[DieselnDust]

My point is I don't feel a major difference. Whether Fox is premium I doubt very much. I think it's up to personal taste. 2 family members have had repeated qc issues on shocks and forks on 2 brand new Trek Top Fuels...

 

 

 

I would agree with you. for the majority of users a fork with a well tuned damping system is going to deliver everything they need for a pleasant MTB experience. The damper you buy in a base line product today was top of the range 5 years ago and that worked just fine. One would have to go back more than 15years to still find really horrid dampers in the market. Fox Float RP23 is still a very decent rear shock, with spares still available.

The only forks that have blown me away with the upgraded performance is the new RS SID 35 and SID Ultimate as well as the SIDLuxe rear shock.

Manitou Suspension is now owned by Hayes Hydraulics and they're working hard to revive the Manitou brand to what is was 15 years ago. The forks work really well.

The RS30 Gold RL uses the older Motion Control damper that was a superb product. The trickle down benefits the product immensely to the point where it punches way above its weight. Its basically a Reba in a heavier chassis. Te RS Reba is probably the best value for money fork in the XC sector available from anyone.

So if you're not feeling the difference between the RS30Gold then keep it and flog the Fox.

The FOX will add some resale value to your bike thanks to perception but the 30 isn't a crap product at all. It packs a lot of performance in a cost effective package 

[Eddy Gordo]

Ardents are not a good front tyre. They always slip and slide. 

[Headshot]

My point is I don't feel a major difference. Whether Fox is premium I doubt very much. I think it's up to personal taste. 2 family members have had repeated qc issues on shocks and forks on 2 brand new Trek Top Fuels...

 

Its simple really, a basic Fox 32 and the RS are not that far removed in performance so the difference is hard to notice. Go from either of those to a Pike with thicker stanchions and better damping and you will notice the difference - a lack of excessive fork dive under braking, less packing up on repeated hits and much improved braking due to the lack of flex in the fork legs. And of course, more accurate steering.

[HenkD]

Get a section you ride a lot and then start playing with the settings to see what works for you. make sure it is serviced and operating as it should.

 

Once you have it responding right for you you will feel the difference