Opinion Please. What is a cracked frame worth?

[FaizelSalie_01]

1 hour ago, Mongoose! said:

Maybe its only me, but I see a carbon framed that has been repaired in the same light as a code 3 second hand car...

Second hand value takes a HUGE dip - and trying to sell it on Bikehub competing against unrepaired frames / bikes...eish good luck with this one.

Insurances companies pushing their luck for cheaper options as times are tough ...but as mentioned that is a whole different topic on its own☹️

Totally disagree with your analogy. A snapped frame is probably a code 3. A cracked frame (depends on severity of the crack) is probably same as a scratch mark or dent in a fender.

There are some good documentary videos on carbon repairs and carbon itself. Even an aged carbon frames (due to resin fatigue) can break/crack. A carbon frame from Mark Cavendish or Chris Hoy is probably not a good 2nd hand frame to buy because of the amount of power these guys can produce causing flex in the frame which is ultimately on the resin keeping the carbon fibers together.

CBR can detect carbon issues; I would personally not easily buy a 2nd hand frame without having a company like CBR doing a full inspection on it. I would buy a repaired frame on condition it was done by a reputable carbon repair place, such as CBR as a repair report will be available.
 

[Tomik]

To clarify, the seat stay appears cracked through i.e. snapped. Not a little "dent/scratch in the bumper". CBR did the assessment (as they do for all of this insurers claims) and said it can be repaired. Which it can. That's not the point.

Just like the chassis of a 911 can be straightened. Doesn't mean it should be. 

Anyway, this thread was about the value of a repaired frame (thanks for all the replies). I guess the next step is enlightening readers to insurance standard operating procedure. It is clear there is a lot of confusion on the matter and probably differences in how different companies handle frame damage.

If one can take anything from this, it is that it would be a good idea to get in writing what the insurers position is in cases like this before getting a nasty and expensive surprise.

[Mongoose!]

20 minutes ago, FaizelSalie_01 said:

Totally disagree with your analogy. A snapped frame is probably a code 3. A cracked frame (depends on severity of the crack) is probably same as a scratch mark or dent in a fender.

There are some good documentary videos on carbon repairs and carbon itself. Even an aged carbon frames (due to resin fatigue) can break/crack. A carbon frame from Mark Cavendish or Chris Hoy is probably not a good 2nd hand frame to buy because of the amount of power these guys can produce causing flex in the frame which is ultimately on the resin keeping the carbon fibers together.

CBR can detect carbon issues; I would personally not easily buy a 2nd hand frame without having a company like CBR doing a full inspection on it. I would buy a repaired frame on condition it was done by a reputable carbon repair place, such as CBR as a repair report will be available.
 

Are you an insurance assessors?🙃 

[Thomo]

1 hour ago, Tomik said:

I'm particularly annoyed as all my friend's cracked frames were replaced (all 4 of them were Tarmac S-works that had similar accident damage, maybe slightly worse). 

Sounds like your TTT needs work - stop riding into each other. 🙃

Good luck with insurance - claims really do go under the microscope nowadays. (and that's perfectly fine)

[FaizelSalie_01]

7 minutes ago, Mongoose! said:

Are you an insurance assessors?🙃 

Not at all. Credit should be given to repairs that can be done on Carbon. I did my research. I dont trust 2nd hand frames any longer as I believe sellers do not need to disclose falls etc. which could be the start of carbon fractures. Also an older frame can have resin fatigue. Carbon does not warn like metal, it will just snap. See the incident with the Canyon carbon handlebar with a pro cyclist. It was pointed to the manufacturer when the pro cyclist eventually admitted having an incident which lead to the break of the handlebar.

[Hairy]

11 minutes ago, FaizelSalie_01 said:

Not at all. Credit should be given to repairs that can be done on Carbon. I did my research. I dont trust 2nd hand frames any longer as I believe sellers do not need to disclose falls etc. which could be the start of carbon fractures. Also an older frame can have resin fatigue. Carbon does not warn like metal, it will just snap. See the incident with the Canyon carbon handlebar with a pro cyclist. It was pointed to the manufacturer when the pro cyclist eventually admitted having an incident which lead to the break of the handlebar.

Just a heads up, alum frames also suffer from fatigue, and I would say even more so than carbon.

[Mongoose!]

So, on a high end road frame, the frame will still weights the same after the repair, and the repaired tube (seat stay for example) will still be hollow / same thickness on inside as before? I believe a good paint job on the outside will be good enough for most people. Last words before leaving the repair centre:        "don't worry, the frame is actually stronger now, and won't break again on that specific place 🤫

 

[BuffsVintageBikes]

46 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Just a heads up, alum frames also suffer from fatigue, and I would say even more so than carbon.

#STEELISREAL... Sorry, I couldn't resist the urge 😉

[Tomik]

3 minutes ago, Mongoose! said:

So, on a high end road frame, the frame will still weights the same after the repair, and the repaired tube (seat stay for example) will still be hollow / same thickness on inside as before? I believe a good paint job on the outside will be good enough for most people. Last words before leaving the repair centre:        "don't worry, the frame is actually stronger now, and won't break again on that specific place 🤫

 

That's my view - it will not be exactly the same as before. The frame will look exactly the same (painting is easy), but I doubt very much that the carbon lay-up, weight etc. will be exactly the same. I'm not even sure how they repair a thin seat stay to manufacturers specifications that is meant to provide a certain level of stiffness AND compliance. They probably just repair the outer layers (but that's a big assumption on my part and I may well be very wrong). 

[Mongoose!]

This is actually one of my biggest fears as well. A cracked frame on my newish well insured carbon disc brake bike and a bright spark at the insurance company that wants to fix it with a repair...

Would love to hear your outcome at the end,   -  holding my thumbs 

[Eugene]

12 hours ago, lucastermin01 said:

@Tomik. Are you the first owner of the bicycle? I know BMC grant a 5 year warranty to first owners. If you are the first owner and the frame is still inside the warranty period, Insurers have to replace the frame set. It compromising your warranty. 
If you are the 2nd owner, then Insurers have every right to repair it. A lot of insurance company now days are repairing crack frames with 2nd owners and out of warranty frame set.  
If I may ask which Insurance company are you with? 
I owned a BMC Team Machine SLR01 rim brake frame set. It cracked on the rear stay and Carbon Bicycle Repairs in Durbanville did a fantastic job to repair it and you don’t even see the repair work. It looks like a brand new frame set. 

I suppose this would depend on the insurer. 

There is a note in my policy that states that they have the right to repair where they feel fit and they have no obligation against future values or warrantees. 

[117]

And you've paid more in premiums than the cost of the repair... Win for the insurance company don't you think? 

 

[FaizelSalie_01]

53 minutes ago, 117 said:

And you've paid more in premiums than the cost of the repair... Win for the insurance company don't you think? 

 

What business wants to run at a loss, especially insurance companies? Think about the clients that never claims ..... 

[117]

Its the risk the insurance company takes, not the client. 

If the frame is worth 60k repaired or 40k scrapped, then the insurance will scrap it. 

If the repair is 5k and scrapped value is worth 40k, then its poor ethics on the insurance company to insist on repairing it - purely because they want to make a 'profit'. This is the basic view

Also, I dont think repairs are driven by the insurance company, but rather driven by the repairers through the insurance company. You know... win for the repairer, win for the insurance company, lose for the owner that wanted it scrapped.

But I digress

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by 117
speeeling

[dasilvarsa]

I will never buy or sell a repaired frame

To me it's worth Nil.

[Eddy Gordo]

I have a broken frame hanging in my garage. I will never fix it nor will I ride it. Some carbon frame parts are repaired yes, but how are they repaired? I have an idea of how it should be done, doubt that many do this.  Would you cycle with a repaired carbon handlebar?

F1 replaces broken important structural parts. I dont see why insurance has to dictate to you about a repair. They should pay you out, and refuse to insure should you choose to repair.