La Vuelta a España 2023

[Dirt Tracker]

7 hours ago, Vetplant said:

Any betters out there might want to put a R50 on Remco for today:

 R50 on Remco and R50 on Namibia to keep the Kiwis locked into their miserable run of results! 😆

['Dale]

Big day. Big day. Angliru.

With Jumbo-Visma - team first. Whether it's Sepp, Primoz or Jonas. The only question for me is what is Movistar and UAE going to do to get onto the podium. 

The Belgian jersey will want to go for another stage win today. Bringing some pride to the jersey and redemption to his individual career. Questions will remain about what that slump was on the Tourmalet stage.

I suspect that Sepp will slide backwards down the GC snake and ladder board today. 3rd week fatigue is likely. He is only human.

 

[edgarblount]

Some perspective on Altu de L'Angliru (12.3km/1261m) today with regards to some other climbs:

Hautacam            16.3km        1209m
Col du Tourmalet    18.9km        1403m
Alpe d'Huez            13.9km        1118m
Passo dello Stelvio    20.8km        1532m
Col du Galibier        17.5km        1213m

As stated by La Vuelta this is a 'Special Category' or like the French say 'Hors catégorie (HC)' climb.

This is right up Jonas' alley or is that mountain? I hope GC Kuss can do something special today. Don't see Primoz disappearing up this climb, eh.

[cadenceblur]

That climb is brutal!

[Kenosi]

5 hours ago, Maniax said:

Yeah... JV tactics are confusing....  Seems is a free for all for Kuss, Roglic and Jonas.... That means its a team with very few domestiques.... 

Rooting for Kuss.  But it doesn't seem Jonas will allow him the jersey for free.

Totes agree. Would be gutted for GC Kuss if Jonas or if Niermann doesn't make the call to sacrifice for SK. 
If anything JV should also consider the long-term impact this may have on the team dynamics. A Vuelta would mean quite a lot for Kuss especially since Chris "Welcome to the Butterfly Effect" Horner was the last American to take the red jersey.

Of course, there aren't any gifts in cycling but cummon on, this is the man who helped both team leaders secure the 2 grand tours already this year let alone in previous years as well. Not just anybody. He will forever be indebted to you

Edited September 13, 2023 by Kenosi

[edgarblount]

6 minutes ago, Kenosi said:

Totes agree. Would be gutted for GC Kuss if Jonas or if Niermann doesn't make the call to sacrifice for SK. 
If anything JV should also consider the long-term impact this may have on the team dynamics. A Vuelta would mean quite a lot for Kuss especially since Chris "Welcome to the Butterfly Effect" Horner was the last American to take the red jersey.

Of course, there aren't any gifts in cycling but cummon on, this is the man who helped both team leaders secure the 2 grand tours already this year let alone in previous years as well. Not just anybody. He will forever be indebted to you

 

[Kenosi]

32 minutes ago, edgarblount said:

 

All diplomatic talk but deep down he wants this however selfless he is.

The Belgian fans weren't overly impressed with Jonas after it was "perceived" that he didn't pull hard enough for WvA during one of the early sprint stages at this year's TdF. I hope this won't come back to bite Jumbo in the end
I think it was the Saxo Bank classic where WvA let Laporte take the victory and Laporte has been a trooper since he joined TJV. 

Not forgetting that a significant part of Jumbo's recent success has been the chemistry within the team. Stats can't measure it but I wouldn't want to rock the boat of the team dynamics in TJV. Minimal risk at this point for Jumbo to lose now. Just bring it home for SK   

Edited September 13, 2023 by Kenosi

[cadenceblur]

what a finish, what drama, you cannot make this stuff up, 

Great entertainment

[cadenceblur]

perhaps a bit of poor form from Sepp's team mates though. Sean Kelly and co share my sentiment

[Kenosi]

3 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

perhaps a bit of poor form from Sepp's team mates though. Sean Kelly and co share my sentiment

On his bday nogal 🤣

[Maniax]

27 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

perhaps a bit of poor form from Sepp's team mates though. Sean Kelly and co share my sentiment

Same.  It’s almost against the entire spirit of the sport.  Cycling is a team sport after all, and you support the guy wearing the jersey, at this stage of the race.

common guys don’t make us lose respect.

[NickGM]

32 minutes ago, cadenceblur said:

perhaps a bit of poor form from Sepp's team mates though. Sean Kelly and co share my sentiment

Maybe I'm naive but I think they are genuinely shepherding him along while still keeping their options open with Jonas and Primoz as failsafes. If JV riders 2 and/or 3 make a mini attack, and then other GC riders end up being the de facto domestiques for Kuss to try and close the gap. If riders try to close the gap, Kuss benefits. If they don't, then a JV rider in 2nd or 3rd gains valuable time, without Kuss losing any to a rival team. The net result is Kuss keeping his initial buffer of a few minutes over all non-Jumbo riders, while RV riders 2 and 3 end up within a few seconds of first place.

That said, I think the win is just about in the bag now. Tomorrow is the last mountains day. So if there are no external GC threats tomorrow but Jonas and/or Primoz intentionally put time into Kuss for no reason other than wanting to win for themselves, then ya, it would really be kinda lousy and would blow my previous paragraph out the water.

But I guess they are all entitled to try and win. It was never on the cards for Sepp to win this, it's just something us sentimental fans would love to see.

Also, I don't know as quite as much about cycling as King Kelly.

Edited September 13, 2023 by NickGM
typo

[Kenosi]

Landa was today's MVP

[cadenceblur]

9 minutes ago, NickGM said:

Maybe I'm naive but I think they are genuinely shepherding him along while still keeping their options open with Jonas and Primoz as failsafes. If JV riders 2 and/or 3 make a mini attack, and then other GC riders end up being the de facto domestiques for Kuss to try and close the gap. If riders try to close the gap, Kuss benefits. If they don't, then a JV rider in 2nd or 3rd gains valuable time, without Kuss losing any to a rival team. The net result is Kuss keeping his initial buffer of a few minutes over all non-Jumbo riders, while RV riders 2 and 3 end up within a few seconds of first place.

That said, I think the win is just about in the bag now. Tomorrow is the last mountains day. So if there are no external GC threats tomorrow but Jonas and/or Primoz intentionally put time into Kuss for no reason other than wanting to win for themselves, then ya, it would really be kinda lousy and would blow my previous paragraph out the water.

But I guess they are all entitled to try and win. It was never on the cards for Sepp to win this, it's just something us sentimental fans would love to see.

Also, I don't know as quite as much about cycling as King Kelly.

The post race interviews were cringeworthy, they were definitely exposed as to the move. Some dodging and weaving of questions. 

[Dirt Tracker]

To be honest I thought they weren't being D*#ks about it until today. Sepp has helped both those guys win and not ridden off when he might have been feeling better and Jonas or Primoz have been in the leader jersey. That is especially true for Primoz, who Wout and Sepp have waited, supported and pulled along a fair few times. The whole 'the road will decide' is cool if it's for everyone. No gifts, unless it's Wout pulling you to the line to save your Paris Nice. Just seems like Sepp has to win it on his own and the other guys get to win their GT's with the team around them. 

Today didn't really need it, Jumbo were 1,2,3 there wasn't anyone who was a danger up ahead and only Landa was 4th. Landa did a better job working for Sepp than his own team mates. Remember the storm when Froome peddled off for the stage and Wiggins was flapping? They weren't just riding their tempo and wheeling in they were flying into the final. Either way it puts extra stress on your team leader, riding on his own, isolated not just worrying about the stage but also that you could lose the jersey and have to take risks on that descent to get to the line and keep the jersey. What if he'd had a mechanical or a puncture? No teammates to give bike to the leader of the race, what if he'd crashed on the run in trying to get to the line and save the overall from his one team? 

The post race interviews were awkward as hell and Sepp talking to Roglic and then turning around and getting his B/day cake. Ouch. 

 

[Maniax]

17 minutes ago, Dirt Tracker said:

To be honest I thought they weren't being D*#ks about it until today. Sepp has helped both those guys win and not ridden off when he might have been feeling better and Jonas or Primoz have been in the leader jersey. That is especially true for Primoz, who Wout and Sepp have waited, supported and pulled along a fair few times. The whole 'the road will decide' is cool if it's for everyone. No gifts, unless it's Wout pulling you to the line to save your Paris Nice. Just seems like Sepp has to win it on his own and the other guys get to win their GT's with the team around them. 

Today didn't really need it, Jumbo were 1,2,3 there wasn't anyone who was a danger up ahead and only Landa was 4th. Landa did a better job working for Sepp than his own team mates. Remember the storm when Froome peddled off for the stage and Wiggins was flapping? They weren't just riding their tempo and wheeling in they were flying into the final. Either way it puts extra stress on your team leader, riding on his own, isolated not just worrying about the stage but also that you could lose the jersey and have to take risks on that descent to get to the line and keep the jersey. What if he'd had a mechanical or a puncture? No teammates to give bike to the leader of the race, what if he'd crashed on the run in trying to get to the line and save the overall from his one team? 

The post race interviews were awkward as hell and Sepp talking to Roglic and then turning around and getting his B/day cake. Ouch. 

 

I also remember Froome not getting his 5th TDF, because he was supporting G who had the leaders jersey at that point.  the next year G did the same for Bernal.  Thats what cycling is about.  

Jonas was happy to wait for Tadey, but not for Kuss?  We'll reserve final judgement for tomorrow I think.  Its the last big mountain stage, although saturday is not an easy one.