Deristricted E Bikes

[The Ouzo]

5 hours ago, ChrisF said:

And sadly THIS is what a lot of people think.

Chris, please explain if this thinking is wrong

[ChrisF]

40 minutes ago, Stretched@Birth said:

Same argument...

Dopers are not going away so the lets just incorporate them .

The solution is simply give them their own class behind the " clean " riders and in that class they have two batches, Stock  UCI regulated PEDS and "OPEN" class where you can inject what you like into your body.

For the record, I've always thought there should be 2 racing classes, natural and "enhanced"! 🤪😉🤣

Edit: Silly face emoticons to show tone...

 

Many a true word spoken in gest ....

 

With RACETEC e-bikes had their own class, and their own results.  This new lot from useless-time, or is that finish-time, has a separate entry list for ebikes, then group them with the other bikes ....

 

 

By all means, let the ebikes start 20 or 30 minutes later, to ensure they cant impact the "real race" results.  Now let these riders have their own fun,  Trailseeker have embraced this, and the size of the ebike batch is GROWING !!!  The front half of this field is GONE in a few minutes !!  Some serious racers on ebikes, good for them.  Then the rest of the casual riders on their ebikes get to ride the route and enjoy the day.

[ChrisF]

6 hours ago, NotSoBigBen said:

I overheard some guys discussing ebikes yesterday .... according to them there are 2 kinds of riders

The first get one simply so that they CAN ride, in this case Amish bikes makes it to uncomfortable or painful to be able to enjoy their ride

The second are those who use them to be able to ride FASTER than they are able to given their fitness level (commitment) and or strength/genetic make up

Interesting perspective  to me anyway

 

@The Ouzo

 

1. An ebike wont make the ride any more "comfortable".  That is a matter of bike fit .... That said, YES, there are people who refuse to go for a bike fit, who refuse to get "the right size" saddle, because that gomma-gomma seat must be more comfortable ....  whole different debate.

 

2. "Too painful to enjoy" .... initially I grouped this with the previous comment.  But maybe this refers to those with knee (or other health) issues.  maybe ....

 

3. Riding faster .... sure, there are those that cant keep up with their mates, then get an ebike just to go faster.  In fact, this often happen in families.  The older or weaker rider gets an ebike, "not to hold up" the stronger rider.

 

 

 

Some of the reasons I have encountered -

- Chairlift .... this concept is not frowned upon overseas, why do we have the need to chirp people buying an ebike as a chairlift ?

 

- Commuter .... either the distance, and/or wanting to get to work without being drenched in sweat .... SA is slowly catching up on this use for ebikes.  By all accounts this seems to be THEE growing market overseas.

 

- the new moto-X .... there is a nice market for parents and kids that go this route instead of moto-X.  See enough of these riders at Hoogekraal Leatt skills park.

 

- Health .... to me this does not only relate to "pain" (but maybe this is what his friend eluded to).  People with heart conditions comes to mind.

 

- there is a whole market segment for foldable ebikes, I kid you not.  The bike lives in the camper or 4x4.  Once the camp is put up this bike gets used to run erands ....  (I have my thoughts on 20" tyres and theses speeds on bad gravel roads.... but each to their own)

 

 

 

The reality is this technology is HERE.  Its applications are growing as fast as the marketers can identify a new segment.

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

1. An ebike wont make the ride any more "comfortable".  That is a matter of bike fit .... That said, YES, there are people who refuse to go for a bike fit, who refuse to get "the right size" saddle, because that gomma-gomma seat must be more comfortable ....  whole different debate.

 

2. "Too painful to enjoy" .... initially I grouped this with the previous comment.  But maybe this refers to those with knee (or other health) issues.  maybe ....

I read NSBBs post as per you second point. i.e. some sort of medical reason why the person should rather ride and e-Bike.

 

4 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

3. Riding faster .... sure, there are those that cant keep up with their mates, then get an ebike just to go faster.  In fact, this often happen in families.  The older or weaker rider gets an ebike, "not to hold up" the stronger rider.

 

5 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

- Chairlift .... this concept is not frowned upon overseas, why do we have the need to chirp people buying an ebike as a chairlift ?

 

5 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

- Commuter .... either the distance, and/or wanting to get to work without being drenched in sweat .... SA is slowly catching up on this use for ebikes.  By all accounts this seems to be THEE growing market overseas.

all the above speak to the fitness point in NSBBs post.

Its not always a negative point though, 

Maybe the person just doesnt want to dedicate the hours and hours of training to be fit enough to commute to work without sweating, by all means, e-Bike is the right tool.

Want to get up the mountain quicker so that you can clap more descents, go for it.

but at the end of the day, the real reason boils down to fitness. And thats OK.

 

Which is why I asked the question of you. Because to me, if you really break it down, there are on 2 reasons to ride and ebike. And I'm not saying thats a bad thing.

[BaGearA]

***Spanner about to be thrown 

 

 

Apparently some rich business man is bank rolling the steroid Olympics and I can't bloody wait 

 

So where does the ebike haters come in on there ? cause here comes the second spanner 

 

I don't think ricky bobby will compete cause he can roid himself now , I think real athletes will compete and just juice like hell 

 

So it will be all the same names but maybe something like a sub 8 second 100m , like I said I can't bloody wait  

[ChrisF]

36 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

***Spanner about to be thrown 

 

 

Apparently some rich business man is bank rolling the steroid Olympics and I can't bloody wait 

 

So where does the ebike haters come in on there ? cause here comes the second spanner 

 

I don't think ricky bobby will compete cause he can roid himself now , I think real athletes will compete and just juice like hell 

 

So it will be all the same names but maybe something like a sub 8 second 100m , like I said I can't bloody wait  

 

Like a certain Mr Hatherley. 👍

 

Kicks amish ass ... and carried on to do the same on an ebike 

[Paul Ruinaard]

So the guy who won the ebike class at Wine to Whales did the whole event in about 6 hours i.e. Total ride time for the 3 x days. On a Specialized. I know he was ebike world champ but even the film motorbike struggled to stay with him. That was IMO amazing...

The thing is an ebike with a big battery (700 w/h) and the 320 watt motor can push big sticky wide tryes and a huge plush fork up the slopes, so when the slope tilts down you go like smoke. Its a heavy bike so very stable and also raked out so it corners well. You will nuke anyone on a steep drop if you ride even half decent and in the right hands you just run away from anyone else who hasnt got the traction and handling you have.

Racing ebikes IMO makes no sense, limited or unlimited. Riding them in a race where you are part of the field and want to do the route but arent going to be taking any result home - thats cool. I would love to do a multi day on my Specialized with batteries scattered across the course - you will have a lekker day and generally finish much fresher.

FWIW i have cracked the firmware on the bike  and also learned how to hack it to get it to go faster if need be. I am an inveterate tweaker and will always be tinkering with my cars and bikes - thats a fun thing to do especially on an ebike as there is free performance that the regulatory nazis are not allowing you to gte to, and it aint at the cost of the carbon footprint or safety. 

[Paul Ruinaard]

47 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

***Spanner about to be thrown 

 

 

Apparently some rich business man is bank rolling the steroid Olympics and I can't bloody wait 

 

So where does the ebike haters come in on there ? cause here comes the second spanner 

 

I don't think ricky bobby will compete cause he can roid himself now , I think real athletes will compete and just juice like hell 

 

So it will be all the same names but maybe something like a sub 8 second 100m , like I said I can't bloody wait  

None other than Peter Thiel, founder of Paypal and also Elon Musks old business partner, a libertarian and a Trump supporter and generally a very interetsing guy. Do some reading about him.

I always thought we needed to bring in a Hercules class where my drugs or enhancements compete with yours as well. If you expire or have long term consequence - well you read the fine print. TBH a lot of this happens under the covers anyway and people have long terms side effects that disable them later in life but do it for the glory. 

Go watch Ircarus and then look me in the eye and hone0tsly tell me the Russians sports medals over the last 50 years have been won clean. And then if you believe in that i know of a jolly fat guy  with a white beard and a sleigh that i must tell you about who brings everyone presents at Xmas, and a bunny that delivers choclate eggs.

Look at Carl Lewis - who is now wheel chair bound - and see some of his quotes on the subject where he clearly says he would do it all again even knowing the consequences.

Hey some people have allegedly made a chicken that they grafted four legs on to which is meant to solve world hunger but the problem is they havent managed to catch one yet to see if it works and what it tastes like :-). Agriculture has been doing it for a long time.

Welcome to the world of Neuralink shunts directly connected to your brain, personal AI copilots  assistants through  3d Vision displays. I reckon about 20 to 25 years away if that. But thats another topic.

 

[Pieterlab1]

11 minutes ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

So the guy who won the ebike class at Wine to Whales did the whole event in about 6 hours i.e. Total ride time for the 3 x days. On a Specialized. I know he was ebike world champ but even the film motorbike struggled to stay with him. That was IMO amazing...

The thing is an ebike with a big battery (700 w/h) and the 320 watt motor can push big sticky wide tryes and a huge plush fork up the slopes, so when the slope tilts down you go like smoke. Its a heavy bike so very stable and also raked out so it corners well. You will nuke anyone on a steep drop if you ride even half decent and in the right hands you just run away from anyone else who hasnt got the traction and handling you have.

Racing ebikes IMO makes no sense, limited or unlimited. Riding them in a race where you are part of the field and want to do the route but arent going to be taking any result home - thats cool. I would love to do a multi day on my Specialized with batteries scattered across the course - you will have a lekker day and generally finish much fresher.

FWIW i have cracked the firmware on the bike  and also learned how to hack it to get it to go faster if need be. I am an inveterate tweaker and will always be tinkering with my cars and bikes - thats a fun thing to do especially on an ebike as there is free performance that the regulatory nazis are not allowing you to gte to, and it aint at the cost of the carbon footprint or safety. 

Joris Ryf.

His speed wasn't as impressive as the way he handled that bike!

That man's got some serious skills.

[BaGearA]

6 minutes ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

None other than Peter Thiel, founder of Paypal and also Elon Musks old business partner, a libertarian and a Trump supporter and generally a very interetsing guy. Do some reading about him.

I always thought we needed to bring in a Hercules class where my drugs or enhancements compete with yours as well. If you expire or have long term consequence - well you read the fine print. TBH a lot of this happens under the covers anyway and people have long terms side effects that disable them later in life but do it for the glory. 

Go watch Ircarus and then look me in the eye and hone0tsly tell me the Russians sports medals over the last 50 years have been won clean. And then if you believe in that i know of a jolly fat guy  with a white beard and a sleigh that i must tell you about who brings everyone presents at Xmas, and a bunny that delivers choclate eggs.

Look at Carl Lewis - who is now wheel chair bound - and see some of his quotes on the subject where he clearly says he would do it all again even knowing the consequences.

Hey some people have allegedly made a chicken that they grafted four legs on to which is meant to solve world hunger but the problem is they havent managed to catch one yet to see if it works and what it tastes like :-). Agriculture has been doing it for a long time.

Welcome to the world of Neuralink shunts directly connected to your brain, personal AI copilots  assistants through  3d Vision displays. I reckon about 20 to 25 years away if that. But thats another topic.

 

and I'm here for it 

 

People are living longer due to tech so I'm not opposed to that ( hell I can be thrown into that very same argument ) 

 

Re the juicy Olympics , I'm sooooo keen for it.

 

Cause if everybopdy is allowed the slimy competitors that do it anyway don't have anywhere to hide. 

 

Ronnie Coleman can barely walk and has also said he would do it again , and good for him. He made sacrifices for Greatness and legacy while being 100% transparent  

[Paul Ruinaard]

5 minutes ago, Pieterlab1 said:

Joris Ryf.

His speed wasn't as impressive as the way he handled that bike!

That man's got some serious skills.

Okay so i found him on INstagram and it seems like he is currently out here training in Stellenbosch and Banhoek. Man is fast i agree.

[dave303e]

On 2/7/2024 at 9:23 AM, thebob said:

Road e-bikes are assisted to 45km/h. 

Back to the MTB, there is an argument for guys hitting big jumps that the 32km/h limit is too low, especially if you hit the governor as you are on a jump face. Different kettle of fish, but worth noting.

As for the cheats: I've had people I call friends blatantly cut routes at Moto Enduro races and stand on the podium with zero shame. If someone wants to cheat, they will do it. The local scene is too small and does not have enough resources to check all the bikes before events. Even if they did, a skelm KFC would usually be enough for someone to look the other way

If your body is capable of hitting a jump at 45kmh, you will be strong enough to pedal a bicycle.

20 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

@The Ouzo

 

1. An ebike wont make the ride any more "comfortable".  That is a matter of bike fit .... That said, YES, there are people who refuse to go for a bike fit, who refuse to get "the right size" saddle, because that gomma-gomma seat must be more comfortable ....  whole different debate.

 

2. "Too painful to enjoy" .... initially I grouped this with the previous comment.  But maybe this refers to those with knee (or other health) issues.  maybe ....

 

3. Riding faster .... sure, there are those that cant keep up with their mates, then get an ebike just to go faster.  In fact, this often happen in families.  The older or weaker rider gets an ebike, "not to hold up" the stronger rider.

 

 

 

Some of the reasons I have encountered -

- Chairlift .... this concept is not frowned upon overseas, why do we have the need to chirp people buying an ebike as a chairlift ?

 

- Commuter .... either the distance, and/or wanting to get to work without being drenched in sweat .... SA is slowly catching up on this use for ebikes.  By all accounts this seems to be THEE growing market overseas.

 

- the new moto-X .... there is a nice market for parents and kids that go this route instead of moto-X.  See enough of these riders at Hoogekraal Leatt skills park.

 

- Health .... to me this does not only relate to "pain" (but maybe this is what his friend eluded to).  People with heart conditions comes to mind.

 

- there is a whole market segment for foldable ebikes, I kid you not.  The bike lives in the camper or 4x4.  Once the camp is put up this bike gets used to run erands ....  (I have my thoughts on 20" tyres and theses speeds on bad gravel roads.... but each to their own)

 

 

 

The reality is this technology is HERE.  Its applications are growing as fast as the marketers can identify a new segment.

But it is not the new MX, it is just parents thinking their kids are safer and more socially acceptable than the mx kids.

MX kids are real, those lighties can ride, those bikes have real power and take real skill to ride. ebikes have no gears, no clutch, really average suspension and tyres and weigh a lot less. The day you clear every jump on an mx track you can think about that comparison. Rich moms are just happier thinking their sons are cycling not being hood rat MX riders. 

1 hour ago, BaGearA said:

***Spanner about to be thrown 

 

 

Apparently some rich business man is bank rolling the steroid Olympics and I can't bloody wait 

 

So where does the ebike haters come in on there ? cause here comes the second spanner 

 

I don't think ricky bobby will compete cause he can roid himself now , I think real athletes will compete and just juice like hell 

 

So it will be all the same names but maybe something like a sub 8 second 100m , like I said I can't bloody wait  

There are a bunch of Isle of Man riders that will win this class, all they have to do is bring their TT Zero bikes to the e-road race. I think the 2019 TT Zero was won with a 121mph Average speed. The derestricted ebikes will get destroyed. The new electric mx bikes are also stupidly fast

[DuncanDoughnuts]

34 minutes ago, Paul Ruinaard said:

Racing ebikes IMO makes no sens

I agree... same goes for motocross and Moto enduro ... what's the point when you have a motor

[thebob]

18 minutes ago, dave303e said:

If your body is capable of hitting a jump at 45kmh, you will be strong enough to pedal a bicycle.

There are a bunch of Isle of Man riders that will win this class, all they have to do is bring their TT Zero bikes to the e-road race. I think the 2019 TT Zero was won with a 121mph Average speed. The derestricted ebikes will get destroyed. The new electric mx bikes are also stupidly fast

Any experience with hitting the limiter on an ebike? It's not a great experience and could lead to an injury or worse if it happens at the wrong time.

Also, an electric motorbike is not an ebike. I don't see the IOM racers pedaling their Mugens and Taddy sure isn't pedaling his Stark

[dave303e]

8 minutes ago, thebob said:

Any experience with hitting the limiter on an ebike? It's not a great experience and could lead to an injury or worse if it happens at the wrong time.

Also, an electric motorbike is not an ebike. I don't see the IOM racers pedaling their Mugens and Taddy sure isn't pedaling his Stark

If you are hitting the limiter of the ebike then step onto a bicycle like the rest of us, because your fitness and or capability is not actually a restriction worth riding an ebike.
 

[Paul Ruinaard]

I have ridden a bike with a limiter and the thing is it isnt gradual - its a switch. So you need the assistance to be a glide path not a cliff. You hit the cliff on a way up a jump I agree it could be a dramatic Flying W nose wheelie if you are lucky enough to actually land it

Edited February 13 by Paul Ruinaard