Petition. Woodstock cycle lane

[droo]

7 minutes ago, peepeekaitjie said:

imagine if there was a lane that went directly into the CBD, exclusively for bicycles and pedestrians

 

oh wait, nevermind

If by pedestrians you mean muggers, then yes...

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

I don't think a good railway would do anything in Cape Town.

Our carcentric culture doesn't allow public transport a foot in the door. People simply don't go to places they can't park close to. A train station that exits onto a busy road is also a mess. 

There are many studies that show that first we need to remove cars from small areas and create 'people spaces'... When people see people walking, they immediately assume the space is safe to walk so will walk/inhabit that space. It's funny because carless areas also tend to be cleaner and less dirty.

Take away the 3 ton bubble of safety and people are forced to interact with their senses and their surroundings.

BUT...... It's not a thing in South Africa. It will take years of changing mentality and automatic carcentric behaviour.

Spending huge money of public transport infrastructure doesn't automatically create buy in. It will just mean more white elephants that require maintenance, which we know is not a strong point with the powers that be, especially if it only services a tiny segment of the population.

If you look at the Gautrain in JHB. I would say it is a relative success. It is fairly full, clean, safe and on time most of the time. The few times I went to my previous work's offices. It was a delight. It is highway except for 2km to hatfield station. Jump on the train and walk 300m from other station to the office. Usually via Seattle coffee. Felt very non South African.

The issue that it was designed around demand. Not around seamless supply.

A successful supply would mean when you are in a city you would need to walk no more than a km or 2 to a bus station. A bus would travel no longer than 5mins to a train station and the trains could get you anywhere in the city. That way you know that you can reach anywhere in the city with no more than a km or 2 walk and maybe a short bus ride.

All of our trains are not set up like that. They supply the "greatest demand routes". Like gautrain.

If you are in fourways it is can be a 10min uber tot he bus, then a 25min bus trip just to reach the train. If you were going to hatfield you would already be halfway there in a car before you get on a train even. So it doesn't always make it faster and you actually can't reach everywhere you want to go without getting in a taxi of sorts. So while it does alleviate N1 Traffic. it does not make it better in general and does not give a seamless reach. London you are never more than a few km from a train station. Most of JHB or PTA is more than a few km from a station.

Until you can seamlessly trust the train system's supply/ reach, you will own a car.

[CapSizer]

8 minutes ago, dave303e said:

------

The issue that it was designed around demand. Not around seamless supply.

A successful supply would mean when you are in a city you would need to walk no more than a km or 2 to a bus station. A bus would travel no longer than 5mins to a train station and the trains could get you anywhere in the city. That way you know that you can reach anywhere in the city with no more than a km or 2 walk and maybe a short bus ride.

All of our trains are not set up like that. They supply the "greatest demand routes". Like gautrain.

------

Have to agree completely with you.  Here's the trick with using bikes to get the cars out of the city - If people have to walk, you need nearly everywhere to be within 1 or at most 2 km of a railway station, which is very difficult to achieve.  If bikes and safe parking for bikes are available, then you only need everywhere to be within say 5 km of a railway station.  Much more achievable.  Which is why the Dutch build these huge bike parking facilities at their railway stations.  This is dreaming of Utopia, of course, but we can start fixing existing rail facilities now, and start building new facilities and infrastructure.  Now.

[The Ouzo]

22 minutes ago, dave303e said:

If you look at the Gautrain in JHB. I would say it is a relative success. It is fairly full, clean, safe and on time most of the time. The few times I went to my previous work's offices. It was a delight. It is highway except for 2km to hatfield station. Jump on the train and walk 300m from other station to the office. Usually via Seattle coffee. Felt very non South African.

The issue that it was designed around demand. Not around seamless supply.

A successful supply would mean when you are in a city you would need to walk no more than a km or 2 to a bus station. A bus would travel no longer than 5mins to a train station and the trains could get you anywhere in the city. That way you know that you can reach anywhere in the city with no more than a km or 2 walk and maybe a short bus ride.

All of our trains are not set up like that. They supply the "greatest demand routes". Like gautrain.

If you are in fourways it is can be a 10min uber tot he bus, then a 25min bus trip just to reach the train. If you were going to hatfield you would already be halfway there in a car before you get on a train even. So it doesn't always make it faster and you actually can't reach everywhere you want to go without getting in a taxi of sorts. So while it does alleviate N1 Traffic. it does not make it better in general and does not give a seamless reach. London you are never more than a few km from a train station. Most of JHB or PTA is more than a few km from a station.

Until you can seamlessly trust the train system's supply/ reach, you will own a car.

the other problem is the cost

When Gautrain was first launched, I was working in woodmead. I did the math, it would be more expensive to use the train and take me longer to get to work.

When i was in Greece a number of years back, you'd buy a single "public transport" ticket, if I recall it was dirt cheap, and for the next hour that ticket could be used for any public transport. So I'd jump on a bus, travel 10-15 minutes to the underground metro, jump on the metro to the middle of Athens, climb on a tram and get taken to within a few km of my destination, all using the same cheap ticket.

[dave303e]

33 minutes ago, CapSizer said:

Have to agree completely with you.  Here's the trick with using bikes to get the cars out of the city - If people have to walk, you need nearly everywhere to be within 1 or at most 2 km of a railway station, which is very difficult to achieve.  If bikes and safe parking for bikes are available, then you only need everywhere to be within say 5 km of a railway station.  Much more achievable.  Which is why the Dutch build these huge bike parking facilities at their railway stations.  This is dreaming of Utopia, of course, but we can start fixing existing rail facilities now, and start building new facilities and infrastructure.  Now.

The other major one is bike racks. Buses and trains with bike racks make a huge difference.

[Shebeen]

3 hours ago, The Ouzo said:

also the taxi industry HATES any other form of public transport and will most likely sabotage anything new put in place.

Taxis. They have too much power, but also while they are part of the problem, they need to be part of the solution. The fact that the whole taxi network exists is because the apartheid government left a massive void for public transport that had huge demand. This was set-up with zero government funding or incentives, the country stops when they stop. 

Every city needs a blended mix of transport options. I was quite surprised to see that durban has a BRT system that is seemingly forever stillborn. I'm told the taxis have stopped it from kicking off.

so, ready to launch in 2016

https://www.news24.com/news24/godurban-bus-lane-on-first-route-nears-completion-20161121

no wait, let's actually open it in late 2023

https://www.iol.co.za/mercury/news/new-date-set-for-godurban-to-go-live-a71ec6ea-475b-4fa2-9d33-fd78552c4e21

the website is ready to give you a ticket, but there just aren;t any buses ready yet.

https://live.godurban.co.za/tickets

 

but instead now we are still talking

https://live.godurban.co.za/blog/89/godurban-tactical-adjustment-roadmap-to-improve-public-transport

If/when they eventually get it going, the already built but unused stations are going to need a revamp before opening.

 

 

 

[ChrisF]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:38 PM, dave303e said:

....

A successful supply would mean when you are in a city you would need to walk no more than a km or 2 to a bus station. A bus would travel no longer than 5mins to a train station and the trains could get you anywhere in the city. That way you know that you can reach anywhere in the city with no more than a km or 2 walk and maybe a short bus ride.

.....

 

Trip down memory lane ....

 

You have just described Cape Town ..... in 1987.

 

Few minutes wait at any bus stop in Town, ride to Sea Point.  Visit friends.  Later in the evening, half a block to the bus stop, and ever so quickly to the station.  And again, not a long wait for the next train to Bellville.  Jeepers, back then it was even safe to use one of the few mini-bus taxis serving that route.

 

Cost effective and safe  (outside of riot times, which was often enough in the 80's)

[ChrisF]

On 6/19/2024 at 3:36 PM, dave303e said:

The other major one is bike racks. Buses and trains with bike racks make a huge difference.

 

THIS is a big item.  The reality in the Western Cape is that most people live too far from the My-Citi bus route to walk there.  Similarly, many have some distance to cover from the station to their place of work.

 

Two short bike trips, and space on the bus for your bike would make this so much more practical for many people.

 

 

PS - I do believe they allow bicycles on the bus OUTSIDE of peak hours, not sure of the rules during peak hours.

[Jewbacca]

24 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Trip down memory lane ....

 

You have just described Cape Town ..... in 1987.

 

Few minutes wait at any bus stop in Town, ride to Sea Point.  Visit friends.  Later in the evening, half a block to the bus stop, and ever so quickly to the station.  And again, not a long wait for the next train to Bellville.  Jeepers, back then it was even safe to use one of the few mini-bus taxis serving that route.

 

Cost effective and safe  (outside of riot times, which was often enough in the 80's)

Ja, but only 11% of the population were allowed to use it.

It was also safe because exeat cards and racial zoning meant that all poverty was hidden, removed and forgotten.

I'm glad there were riots. The country wasn't better 'back then'

[CapSizer]

2 hours ago, ChrisF said:

PS - I do believe they allow bicycles on the bus OUTSIDE of peak hours, not sure of the rules during peak hours.

Rules don't come into it. Many buses are totally packed during peak hours, so getting on with a bike is simply physically impossible. On the trunk route, at least, another bus will be along soon, so it's simply a case of waiting for one that has space. I have to say, the bus commuters are very tolerant, not seen a dirty look yet. 

[Da Vinci]

https://primediaplus.com/city-of-cape-town-responds-to-concerns-over-albert-road-cycling-lanes/
 

Interpret the way you want too

[Mamil]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:26 PM, Da Vinci said:

https://primediaplus.com/city-of-cape-town-responds-to-concerns-over-albert-road-cycling-lanes/
 

Interpret the way you want too

Hard to see what this oke actually does. All I see is more and more car infrastructure. 

[Mamil]

[Vaultboy]

On 6/20/2024 at 7:12 PM, CapSizer said:

Many buses are totally packed during peak hours, so getting on with a bike is simply physically impossible. On the trunk route, at least, another bus will be along soon, so it's simply a case of waiting for one that has space.

If you get on at Lagoon Beach in the morning, you're ******. At that point the buses are jam packed. Freuqently had to wait for more than four buses before there was space to get on. Just reverted back to using my car, instead.