Watchdog withdraws price-fixing bicycle case

[River Rat]

Tumble from your statement that the authenticity of the minutes were never in question but rather the accuracy thereof can I deduce from this that the attendees of this meeting are disputing its contents?

[grb285]

Normally I would say yes to such a request, but in your case I won't. Your manner to me on this topic with me has been aggressive, abusive and accusatory; and, from your request above, it proves my point: that you know little of the topic at hand. All the questions you have posed are answered there. There's one thread about 70-odd-pages-long. Should keep you busy for the evening. Ask my friend, Willehond. He wanted to kick me after wasting 3-odd hours wading through half of it. Enjoy. I'm off to the pub.

Your running around basic questions is the problem here. I didn't accuse you of anything. Nor was I aggressive or abusive.

 

Your friend having a go at me to defend you is a little lame. But hey, if you feel you were so justified to do what you did then you live with it.

 

I smell a rat though. Somewhere, along the line, private meeting minutes were made public. Regardless of the legalities in place, the ethics of this should be questioned. Truth be told, if I were you I'd also need to go to the pub

 

Does this affect my riding though? Nope. I buy from CRC.

[dirtrider]

No just the interpretation, and I am not talking about the one made by the Hubbers .

[River Rat]

Dirt Rider I hear you and the content of these minutes have left me with a great amount of discontent and ill feeling towards the individuals involved, regardless of the comp com's reluctance to make a case. What I feel won't change until I see a satisfactory explanation around the content of these minutes.

[Slowbee]

Your running around basic questions is the problem here. I didn't accuse you of anything. Nor was I aggressive or abusive.

 

Your friend having a go at me to defend you is a little lame. But hey, if you feel you were so justified to do what you did then you live with it.

 

I smell a rat though. Somewhere, along the line, private meeting minutes were made public. Regardless of the legalities in place, the ethics of this should be questioned. Truth be told, if I were you I'd also need to go to the pub

 

Does this affect my riding though? Nope. I buy from CRC.

 

irked !

 

not like me but its been a hectic month.

 

so essentially what you are saying is that minutes of private meetings should not be made public. So all those boardroom meetings on price fixing should be allowed and no space provided for anyone to blow the whistle ?

 

Your tone also sounds like you have a grudge ?

[The Guy in Pink]

 

I smell a rat though. Somewhere, along the line, private meeting minutes were made public. Regardless of the legalities in place, the ethics of this should be questioned. Truth be told, if I were you I'd also need to go to the pub

 

 

The thing is they were the private minutes of a meeting which should never have been held. To hold a meeting of competitors in an industry and then discuss fixing prices and excluding cut price (online) competitors is illegal

[MintSauce]

You must be lank proud of yourself man.

[Shebeen]

If you have the link, please post it. Do you say which shop you downloaded the document from?

 

When you get caught with your pants down, you pull them up. Which is a roundabout way of saying the link has long long long ago been removed.

 

It was on one of the accused's sites, but what difference does it make? For someone impartial to this affair you seem pretty damn outraged, so let me ask you a yes or no question:

Do you have any business interests in any of the accused businesses?

 

I remember a quote from the cartoon, Lambert the sheepish Lion: "dude, lie down before you hurt yourself'

[Me-rider]

Watchdog withdraws price-fixing bicycle case

Commission withdraws case against 28 bicycle retailers and wholesalers.

MICHAEL BLEBY

Published: 2011/06/15 06:59:55 AM

 

 

THE Competition Commission has withdrawn its case against 28 bicycle retailers and wholesalers, ahead of the planned August pretrial hearing that could have bogged it down in legal challenges, the commission said yesterday.

 

"Several respondents raised exceptions," said commission spokesman Oupa Bodibe. "This case was going to be bogged down in legal technical challenges before the merits were heard. When we assessed it, we decided it was better to withdraw than argue all those."

 

The commission hopes to initiate a new complaint this year, but the number of respondents may not be the same, he said . The commission’s announcement a year ago drew much criticism of a heavy-handed approach sweeping up into a probe of all the businesses represented at a September 2008 meeting in Midrand, the purported minutes of which were then posted on an internet cycling chat forum.

 

While the watchdog says it still has a case to prosecute, it is already seeing the effect of recent higher court rulings about the way it formulates the complaints it brings to the Competition Tribunal for adjudication. South African Breweries in April successfully challenged the commission’s case against the brewer, saying it had expanded the original case unlawfully. The tribunal agreed and set aside the case.

 

Retailers and wholesalers yesterday said the withdrawal backed up what they had said all along.

 

"There was no price-fixing," said Andrew McLean, one of the owners of Cycle Lab, a chain of stores in Cape Town, Durban, Pretoria and Johannesburg. "We told them that all along. We’re relieved to get it withdrawn, but not surprised. We’re disappointed that it took so long to get this point."

 

Alan Hodson, MD of Cape Town- based Omico , one of the country’s largest wholesalers, said he was also pleased the commission had withdrawn its case. "I don’t believe it will be opened again," he said.

 

The commission’s probe arose out of the record of a 2008 meeting, posted on www.thehubsa.co.za, at which a number of retailers and wholesalers came together to discuss pricing. Mr McLean and Mr Hodson are quoted in the document as calling for unified price increases by all retailers. They and others say the notes are not an accurate record of the meeting and that they did not do anything illegal.

 

Challenges remain in the industry, Mr McLean said yesterday.

 

"There are issues. Like, for instance, nobody manufactures bikes locally and yet the government levies a 20% duty on complete bicycles coming in. That makes bikes 20% more expensive than those you’re buying from America on the internet. The industry, like all industries, has challenges and is having to make changes, but is there price-fixing? Absolutely not."

 

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=145877

[Thug]

I listened to Bruce Whitfield's interview last night with some bigshot from the Competition Commission, seems that the charges are going to be re-formulated.

[javadude]

Your running around basic questions is the problem here. I didn't accuse you of anything. Nor was I aggressive or abusive.

 

Your friend having a go at me to defend you is a little lame. But hey, if you feel you were so justified to do what you did then you live with it.

 

I smell a rat though. Somewhere, along the line, private meeting minutes were made public. Regardless of the legalities in place, the ethics of this should be questioned. Truth be told, if I were you I'd also need to go to the pub

 

Does this affect my riding though? Nope. I buy from CRC.

 

Dude, it happened, we were all here on the hub in real time witnessing the events. Dredging all that crap up three years after the event is pointless.

[Shebeen]

Challenges remain in the industry, Mr McLean said yesterday.

 

"There are issues. Like, for instance, nobody manufactures bikes locally and yet the government levies a 20% duty on complete bicycles coming in. That makes bikes 20% more expensive than those you’re buying from America on the internet. The industry, like all industries, has challenges and is having to make changes, but is there price-fixing? Absolutely not."

 

Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment here, I think there's some holes to poke in this cheese.

 

I do believe there is a fairly well known production facility in maritzburg.

 

Bicycles in america are also subject to duties. Of course they actually have an industry to 'protect'.

http://www.usitc.gov...ter/1000c87.pdf

about 11% on mtbs and 5% on road bikes

 

 

edit:spelling

Edited June 15, 2011 by SteveCT

[Big H*]

Why would they like to re-open the case. Would be very interesting to see who the "new" list of respondents are going to be? Also Andrew is playing with words in the post above. I pay the same 20% as he states above and I buy from a bike shop and still get my bike much cheaper. I know they have to pay for the glitz, but the 20% is there for all in our minute industry.

[gogo@]

Why is everybody so interested in this? Not because of a set of minutes that may or may not have been accurate, or because of one meeting that may or may not have been called to 'manage' the market to certain people's advantage.

Personally, I picked up on this thread because, from my limited experience of trying to afford basic cycling costs and to get access to stock that I need, it seems clear that there's something wrong (with pricing?) in the industry. Our LBS was run by some brave/mad independents and nobody got rich before they went out of business. The surviving shop could hardly be called 'LBS' as they take so many shortcuts, and I know what lengths they go to to order parts that customers can afford.

So who's making all the money?

And why doesn't common sense apply here - that lower margins support an expanding market and more customers buying more goods more often equals better business? There's an attitude that cycling is for the elite who have big bucks, and don't bother with the rest. Personally, with my limited knowledge, I am SURE there is a case here. So anyone who tries to show me what the facts are so we can see how it adds up gets my vote. And anyone questioning where the 'authority' to do so comes from should ask themselves deep questions about their ability to think and behave ethically. And that includes people who spends millions on lawyers to find technical loopholes in legal procedures. If you're not guilty, what's the problem with putting it all out in the open? This type of 'authority' is the right hand of fascism.

Is it possible to do business ethically in this country - and if not, why not? I don't want to service my own bike and buy my own parts from overseas. I'm a customer looking for a reasonable deal and when I can see what your markup is, and that it's the same as every other large distributor, and that my local shop which doesn't have a market for 100 can't get it in, then I'll draw my own conclusions like lots of other folk have.

Big vote to Tumbleweed and others like you.

Here's to the next round - or do we have a 'self-regulated' market first???

[Pappa Bear]

withdrawn doesn't mean not guilty. Maybe all of the shops involved should releas a combined statment and explain themselves........ But they won't because they don't give a damm about their customers. You can decide for yourself if they are guilty, walk in to any of those shops see what drives them money or customers.

[ccc2]

my major cycling equipment purchases in the last few years:

set of Krysrium wheels - R2 500 saved

Look Keo pedals - R500 saved

Helmet = R400 saved

Campy Chorus groupset - R4 000 saved

Polar HRM - R500 saved

 

all purchased from CRC & Total Cycling. i'm in the market for a new frame & fork and i refuse to pay big bucks for a carbon fibre frame.

i support my LBS (a 1 man show with a mechanic) but he couldn't compete with the prices i was getting from the o/seas suppliers for all my spares.

btw Look didn't stock the pedals i bought for R750 from CRC they were too expensive for the local market.