Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[SwissVan]

What a nightmare for LA, 10 days before his IM debut (coincidently??) in France. How many times did this happen to LA just before the TDF…LOL

 

Probably the best post on this subject belongs to Mr bclark on page 1 post #7, someone who knows Mr Clark buy him a month’s supply of beer on my behalf.

 

Was really looking forward to seeing how LA’s IM escapades went, thanks to the bitterandtwisted stuckinthepast USADA that’s unlikely to happen – Thank you very much you bunch of morons. WTFlip didn’t you get your act together when it was relevant….you remind me of the United Nations Security council, way behind the curve.

 

I don’t see how LA can simply ignore these charges, no matter what he said previously. That’s one of the things I admire about the guy, he consistently stands up for himself and will fight for what he believes in.

 

As for the trolls that woke up with a hard on this morning, priapism can be a serious problem and your advised to get medical help.

 

[Christie]

Comprison of doping cases of Contador vs. LA does not help, home countries handle the cases, Contador answers to the Spanish anti doping authority, LA to the US one.

 

Rasmusen was thrown out of the TDF while in the lead because a journalist said that he saw Rasmusen in Italy, when he was supposed to be in Mexico. If Landis, Hincapie, Hamilton, Vaughters, Andreu etc. say they saw LA dope, it may be enough to bust him. The case is probably based on evidece gathered during the previous federal investigation. The goverment decided it will not press a criminal case, but possibly they handed everything over to the US anti-doping agency to use as they see fit.

[Tumbleweed]

SV, It's not the first time the blood results from his comeback have been called into question. Remember how he was "forced" to take them offline when some scientists questioned them?

[javadude]

SV, It's not the first time the blood results from his comeback have been called into question. Remember how he was "forced" to take them offline when some scientists questioned them?

 

Those pesky scientists with all their facts!

[Imploder]

And this is how the Movie will play out:

 

Opening Scene: Our protaganist, early 40's, on a bike, out of the saddle, climbing what appears to be a mountain. Sweat dripping off his nose, steam rising off his back.

 

Close in on his eyes: blood shot with effort, Grimace of pain,

 

*Flashback* : our cyclist in court before a grand jury, answering allegations of doping.

 

*Flashback*: Newspaper headlines, "Dopper, he Doped, I saw it!"

 

Back to our cyclist climbing, Anger building, He wants to flatten this mountain!

 

BOOM! Open to our hero on the starting blocks for the Prologue of the Tour De France. Comeback number 3!

[T-Bob]

So it sounds like it's going to be a decent show down at the o.k corral.

 

Just out of interest if LA gets stripped of all his TdF wins that would mean Ullrich would get 2000 - 2003 (but not obviously anything after May 2005 because that's already gone up in smoke). Kind of makes a joke of what would be the new 3 x TdF winner as the only reason they didn't strip him was because of the 8 year statute of limitations. If it's proved then you're stripping from one drug cheat to another.

 

Can of worms...

[liebenw]

Someone made this comment.

 

If we reach back into the history of cycling to strip titles from the admitted or not quite clean dopers of the sport, we are going to discover empty podiums. Gone will be Anquetil, Merckyx, Indurain, Delgado, Moser, Fignon, Thevenet, Riis, Zabel, Basso, Marteens, Bataglilin, Zootemelk, Coppi, any German cyclist, many Spaniards most of the Italians. The list is in the hundreds. Most of these guys admitted their doping within the eight year statute of limitations so forget that out. The French remain humiliated that their system has not generated a champion since 1986 and that winner is a known question because he reneged on a deal with Greg Lemond. The grand Tours beg for doping. The demands are beyond expression. The pain and suffering is intense on a minor climb, forget the grand climbs of the Tour. Perhaps this is one way Greg LeMond gets the recognition he truly deserves in the sport of kings – the rest of the heroes are simply gone, ghosts in the hall of fame.

Cyclists do not start out as dopers. The juice finds us in our darkest hours. Hours like a too young 17 year old trying to finish a 171 mile stage in a pro-am tour, you have to make the time limit or you are out. Dope finds us in disputes with sponsors over a racing schedule that makes no sense to an athlete. It finds us when we cannot just hang on or hang in but when we have nothing in the tank and we have to drive tempo for our leader at the front of the peleton. It finds us simply because unlike many other professional team sports there are no substitutions. Over 21-days in the Tour it is unacceptable to have an off day or a day off. And then when the Tour is over, the nightly criterium schedule ramps up.

This pursuit of Lance is a joke. It relies on the subtleties of the definition of modern doping - abnormal levels of x relative to y. X is okay below threshold z and only if q is not present at all. Simple things were completely ignored like the presences of plastic residue from transfusion bags – too easy. WADA has the legacy of Dick Pound to live down and the USADA has more than its share of problems like medical exemptions granted with nary a question. We were all asthmatics; the medical evidence was irrefutable as all of us had trouble breathing under sustained exertion. USADA tell the truth – How many exemptions for Clenbuterol did you grant for world class athletes? Hundreds? Thousands? Or you do not have records or the dog ate them on the way to school?

The real tragedy of doping was in the late '80's and early 90's when 25 or so young riders died in their sleep of apparent heart failure. Hearts gave out when EPO boosted blood took on the consistency of toothpaste could not deliver oxygen to the body while the heart was at rest. It was an era of a silent killer creeping through young pros. Everyone stood by knowing but not really knowing as only a refined lawyer preparing for a deposition understands. Riders were waking themselves at night to exercise and get their heart rates up in fear they would otherwise die in their sleep and that fear was justified. USADA and WADA were silent because going along was easier than doing their job.

The current action by USADA and WADA is all theater to continue and perhaps perversely atone for the fight they ignored. It reminds me of the accounting firms that missed Worldcom, Enron and the Banking crisis of 2008. The regulator’s of this world care more about their position in the economic food chain than doing their job. They play go along get along until the price of go along gets in the way of maintaining their position in the economic food chain.

I sense cycling is improving. The indicators are simple. Average speeds are no longer increasing; team tempo riding has diminished in both duration and intensity. The days of eight drones at the front of the peleton boiling off one hundred or more other athletes while protecting their leader appear on the wane. Only the organizers fail to get it. They keep creating ever more brutal and diabolical stages (Tour of Italy 2012).

I care for the future of the sport, not the past. The regulators knew what was happening and took the easy view at the time– he passed the test. Conveniently reacquired virtue does not create an excuse to destroy those that worked within the system WADA mis-managed in the past. They were happy with the standard then, they need to live with it now. WADA could have helped Pantani and so many, many others, but instead they played along because they perceived getting along was more important than looking out for the athlete.

I love the sport, nothing is more enjoyable than the relaxed hour or two deep in the peleton chatting it up at the beginning of a long stage, and nothing is more gratifying than any finish line intermediate, stage, mountain top or the Champs Elysee. I pray for the success of young Peter Stetina and Taylor Phinney and hope they are able to realize what their fathers could only dream. Lance did great things for this sport against insurmountable odds, let him go. Americans simply fail to understand how deeply affected the French are by the fact that their system has not produced a winner since 1986. USADA should be a pawn in the healing of their annual humiliation. French riders have never resisted doping in pursuit of a pure victory – just ask Anquetil, Virenque or Fignon. Let’s clear the path for a new generation and hold WADA and USADA accountable to that future and not the past that they both so clearly missed with eyes wide open.

This action and the recent DOJ action is so small and childish. It is time to balance the act. Keep an eye on the riders, but go after the sponsors for the insane schedules and go after the organizers for the sequential climbs and insane time trials.

There is the probelm underlined, they admitted to doping, the biggest doper still denies it.

[ChUkKy]

Slightly off topic but I wonder what goes through the minds of the people who bet big money on lets say Jan Ulrich for a win of the TDF, then obviously Lance has won and then years down the line Lance is stripped of his win...

 

[Cyclewizz]

The case is against:

 

Johan Bruyneel (team director)Dr. Pedro Celaya (team doctor)Dr. Luis Garcia del Moral (team doctor)Dr. Michele Ferrari (consulting doctor)Pepe Marti (team trainer)Lance Armstrong (rider)

 

I think credit should be given where credit is due. These doctors are brilliant, from 1999 to now, not a single rider was tested positive on their watch. In that time, they have won the Tour de France 9 times (if I count correctly), while almost all of the competing riders have been busted. Perhaps they are the real heroes here.

 

This is what I've been saying all alone.

LA has awesome "pharmacists" !!!!

[EggsBox]

And this is what wikipedia says about the Tour de France (but I will still be glued to the telly come 30 June)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

[Tumbleweed]

Slightly off topic but I wonder what goes through the minds of the people who bet big money on lets say Jan Ulrich for a win of the TDF, then obviously Lance has won and then years down the line Lance is stripped of his win...

 

 

Which is sorta what SCA Promotions did in "betting" against Lance, and which led to the litigation between Lance and them.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Tumbleweed
: misread

[SwissVan]

SV, It's not the first time the blood results from his comeback have been called into question. Remember how he was "forced" to take them offline when some scientists questioned them?

 

Despite all the accusations there is surprisingly very little evidence that can stand up in court. Without doubt LA is one of those people that you either like or don’t like and to get where he is now he has his fair share of fans and haters. Each of these groups are capable of providing all sorts of “evidence” supporting their cause.

As far as I’m concerned, bclarkes post hits the nail on the head, some powerfull people clearly belong to the hate brigade and wont let sleeping dogs lie.

 

“This pursuit of Lance is a joke. It relies on the subtleties of the definition of modern doping - abnormal levels of x relative to y. X is okay below threshold z and only if q is not present at all. Simple things were completely ignored like the presences of plastic residue from transfusion bags – too easy. WADA has the legacy of Dick Pound to live down and the USADA has more than its share of problems like medical exemptions granted with nary a question. We were all asthmatics; the medical evidence was irrefutable as all of us had trouble breathing under sustained exertion. USADA tell the truth – How many exemptions for Clenbuterol did you grant for world class athletes? Hundreds? Thousands? Or you do not have records or the dog ate them on the way to school”

 

The wankers at the anti doping brigade possibly cocked it up in the past, now they want to make up for it, why dont they just let him carry on doing his sport and if he is what they say he is prove it by catching him doping now, in real time?

 

For the record I'm not choosing to ignore anyone in future but tbh there are better things to argue about nowdays, refer to my signature.

[Bianchisti]

I guess this will never end until they find LA guilty of something!

 

Anyone who has any idea of the physical demands of successfully competing at the pro level will know that the whole methodolgy of testing opens itself up to everyone being on something as bclark's post so correctly calls it. Everyone is on some cocktail trying to get their levels up to the absolute limits prescribed by WADA and co.

 

The only good thing that could come of this is for someone to come up with a better testing protocol with a completely new methodology!

 

Agreed! Finding him guilty now only makes a mockery of their on testing regimes and processes. They tested him just about every week for more than a decade and got nothing. It just means the current crop of riders are using something that will be illegal in 5 years.

[stringbean]

I still think Colonel is behind all of this.

[philip.maree]

Pointless and Useless exercise. I think that USADA is trying to restore faith their procedures and tests.

 

Currently more riders are being banned/suspended due to hearsay evidence regarding possible doping than actually positive tests.

 

I don't understand how multiple institutions with the same evidence can yield different findings.

[Iron]

I truly believe where there is smoke there is fire !

 

and I also believe that if you cheat you not only should lose your winning titles but also payback the moneys you won ( cause you stole them ).