SwissVan Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 ....Snip.... 4) Be prepared to work for a stipend during their apprenticeship and, pay for their own training courses. Once qualified and passed with merit, they can claim their direct training fee back from the employer. ....Snip... Like the advert and having done an apprenticeship can relate to the logic behind the way it was written. Questions that need to be asked are:1. How much of a stipend2. Why do the successful candidates have to pay for their own training courses.3. How long is the apprenticship and is there potentialy a recognised qualification i.e. trade certificate at the end? These questions are not meant to attack your post JB, but in lieu of SeanN's post below these could be standard questions that applicants would ask. @SeanN, LOL R382 per week, in 1984 i was getting R360 per month GROSS as a 1st year aircraft appy, so beware young DAM..... Good luck in finding good candidates Johan, that seems to be a tough task now days as everyone wants to come out of school and start on R20k a month or prefer mom and dad to support them and by them jeans too big that sit around their knees all day and boxers just below the naval.
Johan Bornman Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Like the advert and having done an apprenticeship can relate to the logic behind the way it was written. Questions that need to be asked are:1. How much of a stipend2. Why do the successful candidates have to pay for their own training courses.3. How long is the apprenticship and is there potentialy a recognised qualification i.e. trade certificate at the end? These questions are not meant to attack your post JB, but in lieu of SeanN's post below these could be standard questions that applicants would ask. @SeanN, LOL R382 per week, in 1984 i was getting R360 per month GROSS as a 1st year aircraft appy, so beware young DAM..... Free training brings out all sorts of mamparras out of the woodwork. Chancers, drifters, uncertain, bored....you name it. There's nothing that promotes honestly like putting in your own cash. Lik e I said, the employers will return the fee upon passing and qualifying etc. But I'm not interested in training a bunch of uncommitted people. How much of a stipend? That is the wrong question hence my reluctance to reveal it. As soon as a candidate opens with that question, his motives are in the wrong place.
Lamber Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Free training brings out all sorts of mamparras out of the woodwork. Chancers, drifters, uncertain, bored....you name it. There's nothing that promotes honestly like putting in your own cash. Lik e I said, the employers will return the fee upon passing and qualifying etc. But I'm not interested in training a bunch of uncommitted people. How much of a stipend? That is the wrong question hence my reluctance to reveal it. As soon as a candidate opens with that question, his motives are in the wrong place. I agree with the top section, as for stipend- i think it's a fair question seeing that money buys the whiskey... Maybe i'm just a capatalist infedel Pants Boy and Sepia 2
Simon Kolin Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Hi John, Please will you clarify as per your point below. "4) Be prepared to work for a stipend during their apprenticeship and, pay for their own training courses. Once qualified and passed with merit, they can claim their direct training fee back from the employer." As I understand from your advertorial, you are inviting people, meeting arbitrarily derived criteria, to pay you for a course which you offer. If these students then pass your offered course "with merit", they can then expect to be refunded this course fee by a future employer. Do I understand correctly? My question now is, surely an employee cannot make claim in that regard? An employer may claim against money spent on training through their Skills Development Levy....but how is it possible for an "apprentice" to do so? Are you acting as employer? Edited October 30, 2012 by Simon Kolin
Johan Bornman Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 Hi John, Please will you clarify as per your point below. "4) Be prepared to work for a stipend during their apprenticeship and, pay for their own training courses. Once qualified and passed with merit, they can claim their direct training fee back from the employer." As I understand from your advertorial, you are inviting people, meeting arbitrarily derived criteria, to pay you for a course which you offer. If these students then pass your offered course "with merit", they can then expect to be refunded this course fee by a future employer. Do I understand correctly? My question now is, surely an employee cannot make claim in that regard? An employer may claim against money spent on training through their Skills Development Levy....but how is it possible for an "apprentice" to do so? Are you acting as employer? You read too many things into this and I sense the next thing is a Labour Act coming my way. Chill. 1) I have been asked to identify talented mechanics and train them.2) The company will pay for the training.3) However, no-one wants to put funds into a pot, see what comes after the honey, pay for their training and then select one or two.4) We do it the other way around. They pay for their own course. They will be rewarded with a refund if they pass.5) They will work in my workshop for a couple of months and get paid for that.6) Thereafter they enter into a work contract with the employer and start working. Capish?
Simon Kolin Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Hi John, Thank-you for your reply, however, I am still somewhat confused as to the workings of your advertised "apprenticeship". If you would be so kind... 1. Who has asked you to identify talented mechanics and train them? What is your motivation?2. What company? Assuming, as per your original posting, these applicants are English speaking individuals fresh out of High School, to which "company" would they be recipients of such training/sponsorship? We are assuming they are unemployed, yes?3. This seems to be in direct contradiction of your point 1.4. Forgive my ignorance, but if they (as you put it) are paying for the training, how can you in any reasonable way call it an "apprenticeship"?5. You are then employing your own students?6. What work contract? Have you secured placement with prospective employers for those who complete your "apprenticeship"? My apologies if these questions appear to be intentionally derisive, but I fail to see how paying to work for stipend with you would guarantee any future employ for these "chancres, drifters, uncertain, bored...." with yet as to be names companies (as per point 1). Tumbleweed 1
ChUkKy Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 Hi John, Thank-you for your reply, however, I am still somewhat confused as to the workings of your advertised "apprenticeship". If you would be so kind... 1. Who has asked you to identify talented mechanics and train them? What is your motivation?2. What company? Assuming, as per your original posting, these applicants are English speaking individuals fresh out of High School, to which "company" would they be recipients of such training/sponsorship? We are assuming they are unemployed, yes?3. This seems to be in direct contradiction of your point 1.4. Forgive my ignorance, but if they (as you put it) are paying for the training, how can you in any reasonable way call it an "apprenticeship"?5. You are then employing your own students?6. What work contract? Have you secured placement with prospective employers for those who complete your "apprenticeship"? My apologies if these questions appear to be intentionally derisive, but I fail to see how paying to work for stipend with you would guarantee any future employ for these "chancres, drifters, uncertain, bored...." with yet as to be names companies (as per point 1). I fully agree with the idea of the learner paying for the tuition in this case because what happens if Johan undertook the commitment to train the individual and after a few months he just buggers off wasting Johans time and someone else more committed misses an opportunity. Paying for the tuition yourself keeps the vested interest and you are less likely to skip days or just leave because you were indecisive from the outset of where you want to go in life. My printing apprenticeship, I got paid R382.50 a week in 1998 thats slave labour... so essentially I paid for the training with the work I produced. I stuck it out and dont regret a day. Essentially I was an employed student.
mazambaan Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 I am all for this and it's a great pity that there were not more "apprenticeships" around for young people to learn a trade (as well as life skills, discipline and how to work hard) under taught by a skilled craftsman. I like the "No Smoking". Go Johann!! ChUkKy 1
Swift01 Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 They will be doing the Standard courses offered by JB as far I read into it, PLUS several months of apprenticeship working in the shop. To me this is the ONLY way to learn correctly. All too often you have people coming out of school that know the books backwards and think they know everything, only to find 2 months down the line that it's not like that in the real world. A book will tell you how to replace a part and how tight to tighten the bolt but it won't tell you how to extract a siezed bolt or to fix a stripped bolt etc.......... Mackie, Sandro and Pants Boy 3
Johan Bornman Posted October 31, 2012 Author Posted October 31, 2012 Hi John, Thank-you for your reply, however, I am still somewhat confused as to the workings of your advertised "apprenticeship". If you would be so kind... 1. Who has asked you to identify talented mechanics and train them? What is your motivation?2. What company? Assuming, as per your original posting, these applicants are English speaking individuals fresh out of High School, to which "company" would they be recipients of such training/sponsorship? We are assuming they are unemployed, yes?3. This seems to be in direct contradiction of your point 1.4. Forgive my ignorance, but if they (as you put it) are paying for the training, how can you in any reasonable way call it an "apprenticeship"?5. You are then employing your own students?6. What work contract? Have you secured placement with prospective employers for those who complete your "apprenticeship"? My apologies if these questions appear to be intentionally derisive, but I fail to see how paying to work for stipend with you would guarantee any future employ for these "chancres, drifters, uncertain, bored...." with yet as to be names companies (as per point 1). Simon, quite frankly, if you are not interested in the positions offered, those details are none of your business. That's between four parties - the commissioning bike shop, myself, the candidate and his parents. What is your beef? Treat this as a rhetoric question. Wannabe, Lexx, Ryan and 1 other 4
Ed-Zulu Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 NOTICE TO YOUNGSTERS OR OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES - READ THIS By now you would've read up to this point, but he're my advice 1 On offer is the possibility to do something with really great with your life!2 This opportunity might take you around the world slinging wrenches for the best of the best3 You could also possibly end up slinging wrenches in weird and wonderful cities of the world4 or you could stay here in good old RSA where we need and appreciate techies that can fiddle with bikes5 you might progress from techie to sales dude, to shop manager to shop owner to the Richards Branson of the bike world, the sky will be the limit! Al you have to do is 'do the time', the investment will pay back in no time at all! Grab it, it's on a friggen GOLD platter! Sandro and ChUkKy 2
Mackie Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) My life story:When I left school, I never studied and was a bit of a windgat joller, my folks told me to get a job and grow up, so my dad offered that I do an aprrenticeship in the factory, where he was a partner (Shopfitting) I hit the bench and started to lear how to become a carpenter, did all the k@k jobs as I said previously. Did that for 2 years, got promoted into the drawing office, another 2 years later I was promoted to Store Deisgn Consultant, 4 years later I was head hunted by one of the biggest retailers in SA at the time (With my dad and his partners blessing).I have now been with said retailer for 8 years, now the biggest company in the world! I use my skills everyday, appreciate the value of hard work, and the technical skills learnt taught me to be able to solve big world problems, I am happy where I work and they look after me very well.So roll up your sleevs do some hard work and the rest will follow.Paying for your own studies whilst being an appie is the way it works in the real world, nothing un-toward here, if you not adding value, go away.This thread is about an oportunity for youngsters to potentially become something in their lives. Edited October 31, 2012 by Mackie Mike Bike, Sandro, ChUkKy and 1 other 4
Swift01 Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 @Mackie A bit of a windgat joller..........??? I only wish I was presented with this chance when I was younger.
Mackie Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 @Mackie A bit of a windgat joller..........??? I only wish I was presented with this chance when I was younger.windgat joller = arrogant party animal
rouxtjie Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 windgat joller = arrogant party animalSo nothing changed then
Mackie Posted October 31, 2012 Posted October 31, 2012 So nothing changed then Spose you have a point...
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