andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share ... how do you calculate your weekly IF, simply a add IF,s for workouts together and divide by number of workouts ? and whats a desired avg IF for a workouts/week, We also saying/expecting starting avg IF number for week 1 and then a ramp up over 3 weeks, with a drop the 4th week, normal 3+1 GIf I can try with my opinion.. I assume you know what the IF is, so for the week you should use a weighted average. You can't just add workouts together, because some might be 1 hour and some 3. So I weight by time. For example 1h at 0.80 IF plus 3 hours at 0.60 IF would be (0.80 x 1h + 0.60 x 3h) ÷ 4h total = 0.65 IF. If you only average by workout your average IF would've been 0.70. The IF is a bit difficult to plan for because how exercise is structured. For example, I can do a crazy VO2 max exercise but which includes slow warm uo, rest in between sets and cool down. For 1 hour my IF might only be 0.7 or even lower. But the stress would be large! Rather plan on time and use IF as an extra factor. fanievb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanievb Posted June 14, 2017 Share Hi Think my question was misunderstood. I know how to calculate IF, I'm asking (because of chats with Ben from S2S) he mentioned avg IF/week. I'm assuming thats simply calculated as add IF's together for the week and then divide by number of workouts, giving a avg IF for the week. G sorry that's what I meant, to calculate weekly IF = avg of daily IF Values for the week the article explains the IF values so you can use that to determine required IF during specific training phases i.e. build or recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share and thus my question, how does S2S calculate and look at avg IF for a week. there is multiple ways to calc it and look/consider them. as you rightly say you can do some VO2MAX for 2 min with 1 hour of ride before and after which will pull the workout IF way down or we can do a Sweet sport for a hour with hardly any ramp up or down, with a much higher IF... G If I can try with my opinion.. I assume you know what the IF is, so for the week you should use a weighted average. You can't just add workouts together, because some might be 1 hour and some 3.So I weight by time. For example 1h at 0.80 IF plus 3 hours at 0.60 IF would be (0.80 x 1h + 0.60 x 3h) ÷ 4h total = 0.65 IF.If you only average by workout your average IF would've been 0.70.The IF is a bit difficult to plan for because how exercise is structured. For example, I can do a crazy VO2 max exercise but which includes slow warm uo, rest in between sets and cool down. For 1 hour my IF might only be 0.7 or even lower. But the stress would be large!Rather plan on time and use IF as an extra factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share agree, the individual IF's can be mapped to the type of workout you want to do... I'm wondering if the coaches mix and match workouts with different IF's with a desired avg IF for the week in mind in the back of their minds, and if they ramp this weekly achieved IF up over the 3+1 week blocks. G sorry that's what I meant, to calculate weekly IF = avg of daily IF Values for the weekthe article explains the IF values so you can use that to determine required IF during specific training phases i.e. build or recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share @John Could be a interesting topic for the next Science 2 Sport podcast... G andydude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share and thus my question, how does S2S calculate and look at avg IF for a week. there is multiple ways to calc it and look/consider them. as you rightly say you can do some VO2MAX for 2 min with 1 hour of ride before and after which will pull the workout IF way down or we can do a Sweet sport for a hour with hardly any ramp up or down, with a much higher IF... GI think there is only one way to calculate it. Using weighted time average. Weighting by workout doesn't make sense in my opinion as per the example given. What program/software does S2S use? And it's probably a question for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanievb Posted June 14, 2017 Share If I can try with my opinion.. I assume you know what the IF is, so for the week you should use a weighted average. You can't just add workouts together, because some might be 1 hour and some 3. So I weight by time. For example 1h at 0.80 IF plus 3 hours at 0.60 IF would be (0.80 x 1h + 0.60 x 3h) ÷ 4h total = 0.65 IF. If you only average by workout your average IF would've been 0.70. The IF is a bit difficult to plan for because how exercise is structured. For example, I can do a crazy VO2 max exercise but which includes slow warm uo, rest in between sets and cool down. For 1 hour my IF might only be 0.7 or even lower. But the stress would be large! Rather plan on time and use IF as an extra factor. i think i've been doing it wrong then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share i think i've been doing it wrong then You use TSS corrrect? TSS is a time weighted average of your workout. Since it's already time weighted you can just add for the week. IF is a percentage so you have to take the time into account extra. Spinnekop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share and we have John here that can comment on the S2S G I think there is only one way to calculate it. Using weighted time average. Weighting by workout doesn't make sense in my opinion as per the example given.What program/software does S2S use? And it's probably a question for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share ... think TSS and NP is already time / weighted so might not be needed a 2nd time round for a weekly avg IF as IF is based on NP and FTP. G You use TSS corrrect? TSS is a time weighted average of your workout. Since it's already time weighted you can just add for the week. IF is a percentage so you have to take the time into account extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share @John Could be a interesting topic for the next Science 2 Sport podcast... GAgreed [emoji106] I did send them some questions about the TSS which they said they will incorporate in a future podcast. It's a cool tool, but you have to know the problems/limitations. awesme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share ... think TSS and NP is already time / weighted so might not be needed a 2nd time round for a weekly avg IF as IF is based on NP and FTP. GIF is just a percentage. It says nothing about time. You have to include time to have meaning. And yes about TSS already including time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share IF is a % based on NP and FTP, and NP is based on power of workout over time of the workout. G IF is just a percentage. It says nothing about time. You have to include time to have meaning. And yes about TSS already including time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share IF is a % based on NP and FTP, and NP is based on power of workout over time of the workout. GNo. NP is your average normalised power of the workout. Like an average heart rate. No time involved in the sense we are talking about. The TSS formula takes NP / FTP which is the same as your IF. Then you multiply that by the time. Then you have another number to take into account that the curve is not straight (meaning IF of 0.8 is more than double 0.4), but which is not important here. Edit: we might be talking past each other! If you say your NP was 200, it doesn't include how long you did it. Might be 1 hour or 4 hours. Edited June 14, 2017 by andydude Jakkals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydude Posted June 14, 2017 Share **** awesme! My explaining is not good! When I am home I will post the formula that trainingpeaks use (as far as I know) and the graph. Then I can see each part for my understanding. awesme 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesme Posted June 14, 2017 Share Normalized power is generally considered invalid for durations less than 20 minutes. It used to be hidden in both WKO and TrainingPeaks, but we had a great deal of people asking to see it despite the invalidity of the data. Let's say you did 1 minute very hard and 1 minute off, repeating for 10 minutes. The normalized power would weight the "on" intervals so heavily that it would be an unrealistic report of what you could do for 10 minutes. The measurement doesn't become an accurate representation of the physiological toll until at least 20 minutes. AND Ye we prob talking past each other, and my mind on other "work related ****" GNo. NP is your average normalised power of the workout. Like an average heart rate. No time involved in the sense we are talking about.The TSS formula takes NP / FTP which is the same as your IF. Then you multiply that by the time. Then you have another number to take into account that the curve is not straight (meaning IF of 0.8 is more than double 0.4), but which is not important here.Edit: we might be talking past each other! If you say your NP was 200, it doesn't include how long you did it. Might be 1 hour or 4 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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