weekly tss score

[awesme]

... think TSS and NP is already time / weighted so might not be needed a 2nd time round for a weekly avg IF as IF is based on NP and FTP.

 

G

 

You use TSS corrrect? TSS is a time weighted average of your workout. Since it's already time weighted you can just add for the week. IF is a percentage so you have to take the time into account extra.

[andydude]

@John

 

Could be a interesting topic for the next Science 2 Sport podcast...

 

G

Agreed [emoji106]

 

I did send them some questions about the TSS which they said they will incorporate in a future podcast.

 

It's a cool tool, but you have to know the problems/limitations.

[andydude]

... think TSS and NP is already time / weighted so might not be needed a 2nd time round for a weekly avg IF as IF is based on NP and FTP.

 

G

IF is just a percentage. It says nothing about time. You have to include time to have meaning. And yes about TSS already including time.

[awesme]

IF is a % based on NP and FTP, and NP is based on power of workout over time of the workout.

 

G

 

IF is just a percentage. It says nothing about time. You have to include time to have meaning. And yes about TSS already including time.

[andydude]

IF is a % based on NP and FTP, and NP is based on power of workout over time of the workout.

 

G

No. NP is your average normalised power of the workout. Like an average heart rate. No time involved in the sense we are talking about.

 

The TSS formula takes NP / FTP which is the same as your IF. Then you multiply that by the time. Then you have another number to take into account that the curve is not straight (meaning IF of 0.8 is more than double 0.4), but which is not important here.

 

Edit: we might be talking past each other! If you say your NP was 200, it doesn't include how long you did it. Might be 1 hour or 4 hours.

[andydude]

**** awesme! My explaining is not good! When I am home I will post the formula that trainingpeaks use (as far as I know) and the graph. Then I can see each part for my understanding.

[awesme]

Normalized power is generally considered invalid for durations less than 20 minutes. It used to be hidden in both WKO and TrainingPeaks, but we had a great deal of people asking to see it despite the invalidity of the data.

 

Let's say you did 1 minute very hard and 1 minute off, repeating for 10 minutes. The normalized power would weight the "on" intervals so heavily that it would be an unrealistic report of what you could do for 10 minutes. The measurement doesn't become an accurate representation of the physiological toll until at least 20 minutes.

 

AND Ye we prob talking past each other, and my mind on other "work related ****"

 

G

No. NP is your average normalised power of the workout. Like an average heart rate. No time involved in the sense we are talking about.

The TSS formula takes NP / FTP which is the same as your IF. Then you multiply that by the time. Then you have another number to take into account that the curve is not straight (meaning IF of 0.8 is more than double 0.4), but which is not important here.

Edit: we might be talking past each other! If you say your NP was 200, it doesn't include how long you did it. Might be 1 hour or 4 hours.

[NotSoBigBen]

Think I'll just focus on riding my bike, having fun and checking the 'numbers' to amuse myself

[J Wakefield]

just under 8 hours

 

Jun 5-11.PNG

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Can I ask:

Do you use a power meter to get IF or do you manually calculate etc? 

What was the IF for each session?

Was each session a intensity session?

[J Wakefield]

What program/software does S2S use? And it's probably a question for them.

 

Personally I use WKO4 which I have tailored a personal dashboard with charts of specific data I use to monitor and track an athlete, but I know others may use Golden Cheetah etc and not use a few of the personal charts I use and vice versa. Each has their own in some ways to personal preference on software. 

[fanievb]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Can I ask:

Do you use a power meter to get IF or do you manually calculate etc? 

What was the IF for each session?

Was each session a intensity session?

I manually calculated the weekly if based on the avg daily IF (which based on the posts above, seems to be incorrect. I use the free version of TP which doesn't give me the weekly value so I do it manually

 

All training done on tacx flux this week.

 

Usually weekend rides are done on my MTB and I only get a hrTSS as I don't have a PM on my MTB

 

see session details below,

 

Mon - Active recovery (own session)

Tue - Thu - set sessions 

Fri - rest day

Sat - Z2 endurance (own session)

Sun - Tempo (own session)

 

 

edit: i use this template for PMC http://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/30/how-to-plan-a-season-using-the-performance-management-chart

 

also IF is just used for interest sake, TSB & ATL is what matters

[J Wakefield]

I manually calculated the weekly if based on the avg daily IF (which based on the posts above, seems to be incorrect. I use the free version of TP which doesn't give me the weekly value so I do it manually

 

All training done on tacx flux this week.

 

Usually weekend rides are done on my MTB and I only get a hrTSS as I don't have a PM on my MTB

 

see session details below,

 

Mon - Active recovery (own session)

Tue - Thu - set sessions 

Fri - rest day

Sat - Z2 endurance (own session)

Sun - Tempo (own session)

Jun 5-11 TP.PNG

 

 

edit: i use this template for PMC http://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/30/how-to-plan-a-season-using-the-performance-management-chart

 

also IF is just used for interest sake, TSB & ATL is what matters

 

 

 

When I look at your IF for sessions they are almost impossible to maintain, especially the over under set of a 1 IF for the complete session. This value is impossible to maintain for 1hour in duration. this is a typical IF for a 30sec sprint. 

 

Your zone 2 ride on Saturday was a IF of .80 and 130TSS that is more than 60 tss / per hour typical of a local XC race.

 

Recovery rides are typically a .6 to .65 IF so either you riding to hard during those or again your values inserted in are incorrect. for example you have a FTP of 200W where you should have 240W. 150 bpm vs 173 for threshold.

 

Or maybe your TACX isnt calibrated correctly and / or powermeter. 

 

Yes, you mention that IF is just for interest sake but if your values are out and your sessions are returning the incorrect values in IF and TSS then your whole PMC which comprises of ATL / TSB and CTL are incorrect and null and void.

 

To return a score of .87 for a weeks training is like racing a 5 day very hard tour on a bike, even then you would typically see a .8 - .85

 

Just trying to help you get your data better and more accurate. 

 

 

[fanievb]

When I look at your IF for sessions they are almost impossible to maintain, especially the over under set of a 1 IF for the complete session. This value is impossible to maintain for 1hour in duration. this is a typical IF for a 30sec sprint. 

 

Your zone 2 ride on Saturday was a IF of .80 and 130TSS that is more than 60 tss / per hour typical of a local XC race.

 

Recovery rides are typically a .6 to .65 IF so either you riding to hard during those or again your values inserted in are incorrect. for example you have a FTP of 200W where you should have 240W. 150 bpm vs 173 for threshold.

 

Or maybe your TACX isnt calibrated correctly and / or powermeter. 

 

Yes, you mention that IF is just for interest sake but if your values are out and your sessions are returning the incorrect values in IF and TSS then your whole PMC which comprises of ATL / TSB and CTL are incorrect and null and void.

 

To return a score of .87 for a weeks training is like racing a 5 day very hard tour on a bike, even then you would typically see a .8 - .85

 

Just trying to help you get your data better and more accurate. 

 

Thanks, I'll look at the calibration again.

 

DC rainmaker suggests calibration before each ride. I'll try and see if the results change.

 

ps. I do tend to go out too hard sometimes which affects results, but I'm working on that.

[Jakkals.]

Thanks, I'll look at the calibration again.

 

DC rainmaker suggests calibration before each ride. I'll try and see if the results change.

 

ps. I do tend to go out too hard sometimes which affects results, but I'm working on that.

 

Cobus is coming over to my pain cave tonight to do FTP...

I think you're next

 

 

 

 

 

^{_{(stronger than you think you are)}}

[Spinnekop]

When I look at your IF for sessions they are almost impossible to maintain, especially the over under set of a 1 IF for the complete session. This value is impossible to maintain for 1hour in duration. this is a typical IF for a 30sec sprint. 

 

Your zone 2 ride on Saturday was a IF of .80 and 130TSS that is more than 60 tss / per hour typical of a local XC race.

 

Recovery rides are typically a .6 to .65 IF so either you riding to hard during those or again your values inserted in are incorrect. for example you have a FTP of 200W where you should have 240W. 150 bpm vs 173 for threshold.

 

Or maybe your TACX isnt calibrated correctly and / or powermeter. 

 

Yes, you mention that IF is just for interest sake but if your values are out and your sessions are returning the incorrect values in IF and TSS then your whole PMC which comprises of ATL / TSB and CTL are incorrect and null and void.

 

To return a score of .87 for a weeks training is like racing a 5 day very hard tour on a bike, even then you would typically see a .8 - .85

 

Just trying to help you get your data better and more accurate. 

Good info coach.

[J Wakefield]

Thanks, I'll look at the calibration again.

 

DC rainmaker suggests calibration before each ride. I'll try and see if the results change.

 

ps. I do tend to go out too hard sometimes which affects results, but I'm working on that.

 

You should calibrate every ride no question but I believe your values are wrong and to low. Increase it all by 20% on FTP  and recalculate TSS Values.

 

Yes you may go to hard, but those values are not going out to hard as they unsustainable. An over under session of 3 x 10 for example is a TSS typically 115 and a IF of .80 if you do 95% for unders 115% for the overs. You cannot do a 1IF for that session duration.