sometime Posted November 29, 2012 Posted November 29, 2012 So I have a real desire (I tell my wife it's a need) for a thin steel tubed SS specific 29er frame. On One are offering some amazing prices on a 4130 chromoly steel Inbred frame at UKP 139. I was helping a friend build his this week and it really is a lovely bike. I also really like the Cotic Simple with Reynolds 853 tubing but that is 3 x the price. Same goes for the Niner MCR 9 and I'm guessing the Ritchey. For those in the know is it worth buying a Reynolds 853 steel frame for the price of 3 chromoly frames? Thanks
udxcob Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Is 853 and all the other numbers not different forms of cromo?
Christie Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Without checking the numbers on google, I think 853 is stronger than 4130. This means thinner wall tubing could be used, and frame designers usally up the diameter of the tubes a bit to get stiffness on par again. So the 853 frame would be lighter, but more or less the same stiffness. Would you notice the lower frame weight? Probably not. Most noticable would be the engineering effort that went into the frame - Niner vs Cotic vs Inbred: who would design the best geometry and tube combo? I wont be able to say, best if you could test them out?
HaydenWilson Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 reynolds tubing is typically butted tubing. the tubes are thicker on either end and then taper in at the middle. this allows for the tubes to be lighter and stronger for a given length as it is reinforced at the sites where the different tubes meet. reynolds tubing is much lighter than straight walled cromo and is expensive as they have to form the tube according ton the specific length the tube needs to be.
Witkop Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Interesting question. After surfing the on-one site, they explain that they have their own steel DN-6. They built frames out of various types of steel and tested them all for ride feel. In the end they decided that the ride quality did not differ significantly. They difference did not justify the cost of building on-one's with Renold tubes. So being in Yorkshire, the opted for the cheaper steel and passed the savings to the consumer. (Horor) (They have a similar attitude about distribution as well- They barely tolerate the middleman) So the on-one has a cheaper steel (with similar performance)and a cheaper distribution network. So we all score in the end........
MAESTRO's Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Reynolds 853 tubing is the bees knees.....but don't disregard the others....
shaper Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Just on the point of finishing the build of my on one inbred (will be finished tonight) ready for riding tomorrow!! All I can say, even though is a steel frame, it is very light and am looking forward to the first ride! Could not be happier with my purchase as is very good value for money!!
Monark Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Love the clean lines of a Cotic or Singular frame but for those prices one could build up an entire on one SS. I love my on one scandal so am looking at going the on one route.
Hairy Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 853 actually is rather interesting in that it gets stronger at the junctions when welded ... nice! RE the On One ... awesome bike at an awesome price ... yes I am biased towards the brand
Ryanpmb Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 I can't really speak on the details of the different steels but my Cotic feels amazing. When choosing my steel bike the geometries made my decision. From what I understand the Niner is more racy while the On One & Cotic are slightly more relaxed and can be setup with a 100 - 120mm fork. I believe the Niner runs either an 80 or 100mm. All work well with a rigid too. I chose the Cotic as the On One is probably the most popular of the three. I have a ally Niner on its way. I believe the geometry is similar across the Niner range so I can let you know on the difference in geometries against the Cotic. That said, a mate I ride SS with rides a SIR (steel) and an EMD (ally) and says there's a noticeable difference in the ride. Neither necessarily better, just different.
Eldron Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Eldron consults the dark corners of his brain that have been dormant since his metallurgy studies ended in 1996... 853 is a heat treatable version of 4130 (qite similar in chemistry) - 853 is air hardened if I recall correctly. As the others pointed out it means thinner walls for the same strength (lower weight!). There should also be some benefits to the HAZ of the weld. The bigger difference would be in the shaping of the tubes - Niner have Reynolds make, extrude and shape unique tubes for them. Now there is no scientific way to show the advantage of that but at least it shows theyve put some effort into it. No disrespect to On One etc but they will take standard off the shelf tube sets and weld them up. I'm guessing that is where the pricing difference comes in. Now the tough question - the ride...ride a few if you can and see :-) I have the Niner MCR 853 frame in SS mode and love it - it's heavy, flexible and has all day comfort. The On Ones I have ridden are a bit stiffer - probably more efficient but less comfy. That said - my quick round the block rides on the On Ones don't really qualify as "comprehensively tested".
Eldron Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 That said, a mate I ride SS with rides a MCR (steel) and an EMD (ally) and says there's a noticeable difference in the ride. Neither necessarily better, just different. There is no comparison between steel and alu - completely different rides, weights and feel. My Niner Air Alu is light, stiff and beats you in rides >5 hours. Fastest bike in my set though! My Niner MCR is heavy, flexible and allows you to ride all day. Most fun bike in my set - although the CX bike is getting close lately!
HaydenWilson Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 does anyone know where you can source thin walled cromo locally?
Ryanpmb Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 There is no comparison between steel and alu - completely different rides, weights and feel. My Niner Air Alu is light, stiff and beats you in rides >5 hours. Fastest bike in my set though! My Niner MCR is heavy, flexible and allows you to ride all day. Most fun bike in my set - although the CX bike is getting close lately!Think you just compared them right there...
Eldron Posted November 30, 2012 Posted November 30, 2012 Think you just compared them right there... DOH! You know what I mean man he he he. Different pursposes - race on alu/carbon - have fun on steel :-)
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