LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Mulncj]

Hi guys I need some advice, started yesterday with LCHF, but doing next week Nissan Trail Seeker but only 45km. What do I eat the day before and day of race?

[jcza]

Hi guys I need some advice, started yesterday with LCHF, but doing next week Nissan Trail Seeker but only 45km. What do I eat the day before and day of race?

 

Nothing different.

 

In case of emergency add a banana to breakfast

[Fitter]

This correspondence on the increased popularity of the Banting lifestyle is welcome and long overdue. I run a fitness/coaching facility and have a business partner who is a published author on LCHF. We have been promoting this lifestyle for some years now and have a pretty good understanding of the ins and outs of Banting. But we also need to understand the wider implications of what Banting can or can't do: It cannot replace proper conditioning if we want to go and race bikes. It cannot bolster lack of fitness, irrespective of the weight loss benefits. One of the tenets of modern Banting and the foundation of its popularity goes to the very reason we exercise in the first place - to control/reduce weight. And since there is so little link between exercise and weight loss, the fact that we can lose weight without exercising just spurs us on in our sport/recreation to continue performing better. But we shouldn't forget that proper conditioning and recovery are co-pillars, along with proper nutrition, in our quest to go faster. Much of what I read here bypasses this element and I do believe it needs mentioning. We often mis-diagnose "bonking" as a breakdown in nutrition when sometimes it can be a combination of nutrition and recovery/conditioning.

[davetapson]

This correspondence on the increased popularity of the Banting lifestyle is welcome and long overdue. I run a fitness/coaching facility and have a business partner who is a published author on LCHF. We have been promoting this lifestyle for some years now and have a pretty good understanding of the ins and outs of Banting. But we also need to understand the wider implications of what Banting can or can't do: It cannot replace proper conditioning if we want to go and race bikes. It cannot bolster lack of fitness, irrespective of the weight loss benefits. One of the tenets of modern Banting and the foundation of its popularity goes to the very reason we exercise in the first place - to control/reduce weight. And since there is so little link between exercise and weight loss, the fact that we can lose weight without exercising just spurs us on in our sport/recreation to continue performing better. But we shouldn't forget that proper conditioning and recovery are co-pillars, along with proper nutrition, in our quest to go faster. Much of what I read here bypasses this element and I do believe it needs mentioning. We often mis-diagnose "bonking" as a breakdown in nutrition when sometimes it can be a combination of nutrition and recovery/conditioning.

 

Hi Fitter

 

Welcome to this thread.

 

I'm pretty sure that no where in this thread is it implied that LC'ing can replace training?

 

For most of us that contribute, the training goes on as per normal (except, possibly, during the adaption phase where training / competing can be a miserable experience.)

 

What has been of interest is the effect that LC'ing has on our training / racing (increased fuel efficiency amongst a number of other unforseen benefits - reduced respiration rates etc.)

 

Regards

Dave

[Mulncj]

Thank you, jcza

[Fitter]

Hi Fitter

 

Welcome to this thread.

 

I'm pretty sure that no where in this thread is it implied that LC'ing can replace training?

 

For most of us that contribute, the training goes on as per normal (except, possibly, during the adaption phase where training / competing can be a miserable experience.)

 

What has been of interest is the effect that LC'ing has on our training / racing (increased fuel efficiency amongst a number of other unforseen benefits - reduced respiration rates etc.)

 

Regards

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

My post isn't a criticism of this thread as an implied sidestepping of training. As you point out, if you have been through a keto adaptation you will be quite aware that training doesn't quite continue as normal. Nor does the training and racing that follows. Hence this thread as an attempt to share heuristic knowledge of LCHF bicycling.

However there are numerous posts here from relative newcomers to Banting, cycling and conditioning. I am merely reminding that these are co-dependant pillars of performance - nutrition and the conditioning/training cycle are closely related. I'm not sure we have a handle on the nature of this "new" balance just yet. My recent experience with a group of Epic and IMSA athletes has been to thoroughly confuse my understanding of the impact of nutrition types on extended endurance performance. What has stood out is that the saving grace has been proper conditioning saving the athletes from failure, especially in tough conditions with strict cut-off times.

And until we have some proper clinical trials we are merely speculating as to the nature of the benefits of LCHF. Personally, i have no doubts that Banting is beneficial to humans across so many spectra. We just need to be careful that we continue to adapt conditioning to diet and vice versa, if only because so much of what we think we know about performance has developed in a world where HCLF was the accepted dogma.

[davetapson]

Hi Dave,

My post isn't a criticism of this thread as an implied sidestepping of training. As you point out, if you have been through a keto adaptation you will be quite aware that training doesn't quite continue as normal. Nor does the training and racing that follows. Hence this thread as an attempt to share heuristic knowledge of LCHF bicycling.

However there are numerous posts here from relative newcomers to Banting, cycling and conditioning. I am merely reminding that these are co-dependant pillars of performance - nutrition and the conditioning/training cycle are closely related. I'm not sure we have a handle on the nature of this "new" balance just yet. My recent experience with a group of Epic and IMSA athletes has been to thoroughly confuse my understanding of the impact of nutrition types on extended endurance performance. What has stood out is that the saving grace has been proper conditioning saving the athletes from failure, especially in tough conditions with strict cut-off times.

And until we have some proper clinical trials we are merely speculating as to the nature of the benefits of LCHF. Personally, i have no doubts that Banting is beneficial to humans across so many spectra. We just need to be careful that we continue to adapt conditioning to diet and vice versa, if only because so much of what we think we know about performance has developed in a world where HCLF was the accepted dogma.

 

Righty ho then!

 

The power of this thread is that people have shared personal experiences and how they have adapted a LC type eating style to suit their particular needs. Check out Tombeej / JCZA / HappyMartin / DaleE and HTOne's contributions for e.g. - they have different takes on LCHF and have tweaked (and are still tweaking) it to suit their circumstances.

 

Let us know what happened. What were the circumstances, what happened, what lessons were learned, what will be tried next time?

[Paul Ruinaard]

HI,

 

I am in need of advice and some information on diet and LCHF and my slow or no loss of weight.

 

I have moved across to eating LCHF mostly. However I am having mixed results and i am wondering if the issue is the "mostly "" part.

 

I am especially frustrated in that a guy at work who i got on to LCHF has lost 27kgs. Yet i stay stubbornly fat. I am therefore trying to understand the reasons for this. I think that i am doing something wrong, i know i am not exercising enough and i know that i cheat a little too much. But i was expecting better results.

 

Therefore, seen as though the gurus sit on this forum and I want to be like my 27 kg lighter colleague I am asking for advice/comments:

 

1.) I did have a DNA assessment done by DNA diet analysis which indicated that i have a genetic pre-disposition to storing fat rather than using it. This makes me wonder if a high fat diet may be the wrong approach for me, or is there a way to kick start the fat burning process better. Sure as hell i have enough stores of the stuff.

 

2.) How religious do you need to be - especially wrt carbs and sugar. Carbs i have basically cut out altogether and am happy that way. The only concentrated carb intake i get is when i am riding and i use 32 GI in my bottles or GU sachets. Other than that no rice, pasta, potatoes, bread etc.

Sugars - i sometimes snack on or crave sweets after supper and my wife always has some chocolate. I know this is bad. How bad though - can it undo all the other good work.

Alcohol: Do you need to cut it out totally, or are you able to have a glass of wine every evening?

 

3.) Is there a person or body type or DNA that would be a totally no no for LCHF.

 

4.) The only other thing i can think of is quantities. For example breakfast consists of a boiled egg, some full cream yogurt mixed with a bit of cream and some fruit (strawberries etc.). Is this too much.

 

Other than that i really enjoy the plan and find it easy to do and simple to maintain. In fact i have been doing it for over a year now.

 

SO i am wondering should i dump LCHF, or do i need to correct my bad habits and i will get the success my 27 kg lighter friend has.

[tombeej]

After a little 'holiday' I have decided to make a return to this awesome thread. Hello everyone, hope you'll have me back

[davetapson]

Hey Tom!! We missed you dude. ..

[davetapson]

SO i am wondering should i dump LCHF, or do i need to correct my bad habits and i will get the success my 27 kg lighter friend has.

 

Chances are that you are derailing yourself with the 'cheats'. Easiest way to find out is to faithfully keep track of what you stick in your mouth for a couple of days / maybe a week.

 

There are online tools that the guys have used - I'm sure they will be mentioned soon enough - I can't even remember which one I used. I think My Fitness Pal. The issue is not to count calories, but to check that the amount of carbs you are eating is at or below your target level.

 

But - what you become aware of pretty damn quick is the effect of 'just a little bit of this and a little bit of that' and it doesn't take too many days of tracking for it to become apparent.

 

Part of the deal with LC'ing is insulin control, and if you keep on spiking insulin by 'cheating', you will be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

To become properly fat adapted, the common consensus on this thread is that you have to take it seriously for at least a couple of months. Once you are adapted, you can cheat - but you can't cheat your way to adaption.

 

Do the food diary thing - it's the first step to finding out what is actually going on.

 

As for the 'should I do it' question, I'd hazard a guess that if you have 27kg to lose that you may have some form of insulin resistance and that it should work for you (standard 'advice you get from a stranger on the web' disclaimers apply )

[davetapson]

 

1.) I did have a DNA assessment done by DNA diet analysis which indicated that i have a genetic pre-disposition to storing fat rather than using it. This makes me wonder if a high fat diet may be the wrong approach for me, or is there a way to kick start the fat burning process better.

 

 

Out of interest, what diet did they come up for you?

[DaleE]

I am in need of advice and some information on diet and LCHF and my slow or no loss of weight....

 

Some thoughts for you ...

First, if you are a reader, I suggest you look at Jenny Ruhl's book "Diet 101 - the truth about low carb diets" She deals with why they sometimes fail.

 

My take on your 'situation' is like this

1. we know that to loose body fat (which is different to weight) we need to get our bodies to burn (saturated) stored fat.

2. your body does not really mind where the saturated fat comes from, either diet or stored, but it will use dietary saturated fat first.

3. on top of this, if you are taking any carbs, the body will use those first and ignore the fats. This is really important because you may find that you are very carb intolerant and those small chocolates, etc are turning off your fat burning genes.

4. it sounds like you're maintaining your weight, and what is good is that you find it enjoyable, so it should be sustainable.

 

It may be one item in your diet that is giving you grief, it may be a combination. The only way to know is a very restricted diet for a short period, see the effect, and then start adding things back

 

So, I would try the following for 2 weeks and see if there is an effect.

1. limit all carbs to very low levels (<50g per day and only from leafy green plant sources). obviously this means no choccies, etc.

2. limit dairy to just a few grams per day, perhaps try coconut cream in your coffee. and if you have to have cheese, stick to the hard parmesan type.

3. talking of coffee, limit to 2 espressos per day.

4. no alcohol - it may be good for the heart, but not good for weight loss

5. eat whole meals, 2 or three per day and stop snacking in between. Last meal at least 4 hrs before bed-time (not always easy)

6. Limit saturated fats (with the exception of coconut products), rather go for mono fats (olive oil, etc)

7. eat lots of fish, salads, olive oil (minimum 20ml per day - take medicinally if you have to) green veggies, coconut products, avo's, and lean cuts of meat. I realise the lean cuts of meat sounds weird, but remember that you are trying to limit dietary saturated fat to get the body to burn your own.

8. keep protein to about 2 portions per day, each portion about the size of your palm (maybe 3 portions if riding epic that week!) ... no more chowing down on biltong all day long!

9. try to get at least 2 tablespoons of coconut oil per day in your diet - it speeds ketone production and satisfies hunger.

10. eat till you are full. DONT go hungry - its not sustainable.

11. for this period try to stick to moderate exercise on water alone. If not possible then take your Gu in the period 30min after starting exercise and 30min before ending exercise.

 

What you are trying to do is get your body into a truly fat burning state by limiting other sources of fuel. I realise it's draconian, but you did ask for options and it's for a short period just to see the effects.

What should happen is that you enter a state of mild ketosis and your body will start burning fat. And yes, a small amount of chocolate - especially at night - WILL derail this process because of the effect they have on blood glucose / insulin.

If you are an analytical type, get a blood glucose meter and see the effect that foods have on your blood sugar. There is a correlation between blood sugar and ketones which is useful seeing as measuring blood ketones has become ridiculously expensive lately. I know that when I keep blood sugar levels under 4.8, then I loose weight reliably - your level will be different.

If you develop halitosis or constipation, cut down on the protein, especially eggs, and increase salt & olive oil intake.

 

Lastly, if you go this route and nothing changes, then you may have adrenal issues (thyroid) that are messing with your metabolism.

[Vetseun]

[/size]

 

Some thoughts for you ...

First, if you are a reader, I suggest you look at Jenny Ruhl's book "Diet 101 - the truth about low carb diets" She deals with why they sometimes fail.

 

My take on your 'situation' is like this

1. we know that to loose body fat (which is different to weight) we need to get our bodies to burn (saturated) stored fat.

2. your body does not really mind where the saturated fat comes from, either diet or stored, but it will use dietary saturated fat first.

3. on top of this, if you are taking any carbs, the body will use those first and ignore the fats. This is really important because you may find that you are very carb intolerant and those small chocolates, etc are turning off your fat burning genes.

4. it sounds like you're maintaining your weight, and what is good is that you find it enjoyable, so it should be sustainable.

 

It may be one item in your diet that is giving you grief, it may be a combination. The only way to know is a very restricted diet for a short period, see the effect, and then start adding things back

 

So, I would try the following for 2 weeks and see if there is an effect.

1. limit all carbs to very low levels (<50g per day and only from leafy green plant sources). obviously this means no choccies, etc.

2. limit dairy to just a few grams per day, perhaps try coconut cream in your coffee. and if you have to have cheese, stick to the hard parmesan type.

3. talking of coffee, limit to 2 espressos per day.

4. no alcohol - it may be good for the heart, but not good for weight loss

5. eat whole meals, 2 or three per day and stop snacking in between. Last meal at least 4 hrs before bed-time (not always easy)

6. Limit saturated fats (with the exception of coconut products), rather go for mono fats (olive oil, etc)

7. eat lots of fish, salads, olive oil (minimum 20ml per day - take medicinally if you have to) green veggies, coconut products, avo's, and lean cuts of meat. I realise the lean cuts of meat sounds weird, but remember that you are trying to limit dietary saturated fat to get the body to burn your own.

8. keep protein to about 2 portions per day, each portion about the size of your palm (maybe 3 portions if riding epic that week!) ... no more chowing down on biltong all day long!

9. try to get at least 2 tablespoons of coconut oil per day in your diet - it speeds ketone production and satisfies hunger.

10. eat till you are full. DONT go hungry - its not sustainable.

11. for this period try to stick to moderate exercise on water alone. If not possible then take your Gu in the period 30min after starting exercise and 30min before ending exercise.

 

What you are trying to do is get your body into a truly fat burning state by limiting other sources of fuel. I realise it's draconian, but you did ask for options and it's for a short period just to see the effects.

What should happen is that you enter a state of mild ketosis and your body will start burning fat. And yes, a small amount of chocolate - especially at night - WILL derail this process because of the effect they have on blood glucose / insulin.

If you are an analytical type, get a blood glucose meter and see the effect that foods have on your blood sugar. There is a correlation between blood sugar and ketones which is useful seeing as measuring blood ketones has become ridiculously expensive lately. I know that when I keep blood sugar levels under 4.8, then I loose weight reliably - your level will be different.

If you develop halitosis or constipation, cut down on the protein, especially eggs, and increase salt & olive oil intake.

 

Lastly, if you go this route and nothing changes, then you may have adrenal issues (thyroid) that are messing with your metabolism.

Do you buy coconut oil at Dischem?

[DaleE]

Yes. Or direct from Crede

http://www.credeoils.com/shop/food-oils/coconut-oil/

[Vetseun]

Yes. Or direct from Crede

http://www.credeoils...ls/coconut-oil/

Shot