LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Gobi]

Lots of discussion has come and gone on this thread about that already. Just beware that the cheap deodorised version is refined heat-extracted stuff. This is not what you want to be eating.

 

Coconut oil always needs to be 'cold pressed virgin'.

 

Thanks, Interesting.

Busy working my way through the thread.

[tombeej]

Last year January I was a vegetarian when I went to see a coach. I had a big race coming up in Italy and wanted a training program. First thing Gary did was an assessment. He told me a I wasn't fit and was a bit overweight, no surprise on either count, but otherwise the numbers were encouraging and he felt with some hard work the race would be a nice challenge.

 

One little anomaly was higher than expected levels of lactate at low intensities. I was instructed to do a lot of base riding to improve this negative area of my cycling. On my second as ament 6 weeks later all my nip umbels had improved but I was still producing a lot of lactate at low intensities. Not as bad as before but still poor.

 

Now with my diet totally changed and not consuming much carbs at all and a lot more fat and protein I am wondering if things would have changed. I am planning on doing another assessment at the end of July and I'm wondering if I can expect some changes as I feel I am fairly well fat adapted.

 

Any opinions on this? Could I expect to produce less lactate at lower intensities being fat adapted? Will I be saving my glycogen stores for higher intensities perhaps?

 

I'll be looking forward to seeing how your new test results score, for sure.

 

Here's an article you might find interesting.

[jcza]

Last year January I was a vegetarian when I went to see a coach. I had a big race coming up in Italy and wanted a training program. First thing Gary did was an assessment. He told me a I wasn't fit and was a bit overweight, no surprise on either count, but otherwise the numbers were encouraging and he felt with some hard work the race would be a nice challenge.

 

One little anomaly was higher than expected levels of lactate at low intensities. I was instructed to do a lot of base riding to improve this negative area of my cycling. On my second as ament 6 weeks later all my nip umbels had improved but I was still producing a lot of lactate at low intensities. Not as bad as before but still poor.

 

Now with my diet totally changed and not consuming much carbs at all and a lot more fat and protein I am wondering if things would have changed. I am planning on doing another assessment at the end of July and I'm wondering if I can expect some changes as I feel I am fairly well fat adapted.

 

Any opinions on this? Could I expect to produce less lactate at lower intensities being fat adapted? Will I be saving my glycogen stores for higher intensities perhaps?

 

If I recall correctly lactate is produced to clear hydrogen from muscles when glycogen and glucose is burned for energy. Glucose produces 2 units of hydrogen and glycogen one unit of hydrogen. Glucose is tapped once glycogen is depleted or can't keep up with intensity. Glycogen is stored in muscles and glucose in bloodstream and liver.

 

Training to increase lactate threshold is very different from training to increase fat burning. Increasing LT requires shorter high intensity intervals whilst increasing fat burning will be long and slow at low heart rates.

[DieVlieg]

I have been eating below recipe as quik to make snack before I started reading on LCHF. I have a book on order from oorlede Kalahari on the subject and will soon start experimenting. But through what I have read Coconut Cream or milk seem to be a good source of fat in a diet. Can anyone score my recipe or effectiveness not taste and give me advice to improve it.

 

1. Steam chicken (even if frozen) in a steam pot untill it falls off the bone. (+-30 to 45 mins)

2. Take out the bones and but chicken back in the water remaining in the pot.

3. Add 1 can of tomatoes

4. Add one can of coconut cream or milk

5. Add tai green curry paste (Or other Asian curry paste), black pepper and other spices you like

6. Boil the lot for 15 mins

7. Blend the lot until a creamy soup

 

Eat warm with a knob of butter and vinegar if the taste is still to sweet for you.

[davetapson]

Some info on initial keto-adaption.

 

I wish I had read this before I started. Would have removed some of the mystery.

 

http://www.ketotic.org/2012/05/keto-adaptation-what-it-is-and-how-to.html

[deanbean]

My understanding is that lactate is (largely?) a product of breaking down carbohydrates to produce energy. If you are not breaking down cho's, then you should not be producing (as much?) lactate. This, I understand, is why you don't pant so much when fat adapted - as panting is one of the body's ways to reduce acidity in the blood (due to lactic acid build up).

 

Which is a long way of me saying that I think a person would produce less lactate at lower intensities (and higher intensities too for that matter) when fat adapted.

 

Will be interesting to see your numbers.

 

Someone needs to go and look at Krebs cycles etc. I had to do that too much to pass biochem to want to go and do it again...

 

You too??? I burnt mine, after I passed, I had no intent of ever looking at them again, but got some new ones, I'll try.

I have been eating below recipe as quik to make snack before I started reading on LCHF. I have a book on order from oorlede Kalahari on the subject and will soon start experimenting. But through what I have read Coconut Cream or milk seem to be a good source of fat in a diet. Can anyone score my recipe or effectiveness not taste and give me advice to improve it.

 

1. Steam chicken (even if frozen) in a steam pot untill it falls off the bone. (+-30 to 45 mins)

2. Take out the bones and but chicken back in the water remaining in the pot.

3. Add 1 can of tomatoes

4. Add one can of coconut cream or milk

5. Add tai green curry paste (Or other Asian curry paste), black pepper and other spices you like

6. Boil the lot for 15 mins

7. Blend the lot until a creamy soup

 

Eat warm with a knob of butter and vinegar if the taste is still to sweet for you.

 

That'll do me, sounds good, and the recipe is low carb for sure. The only way to improve is to get a backyard chicken, a scratcher, which would be much healthier due to not been fed maize, and would probably be much tastier too.

 

edit: meant to say, the toughness of the scatcher is what puts me off and that recipe tenderizes that, a Guinea Fowl would be better

Edited June 4, 2014 by deanbean

[deanbean]

Time to get onto the IDT, the winds howling out there, lots of reading to be done.

[davetapson]

You too??? I burnt mine, after I passed, I had no intent of ever looking at them again, but got some new ones, I'll try.

 

Somebody posted a link to them a couple hundred pages back. Sent shivers down my spine.

[Da Vinci]

 

 

Agreed. I listened to the original debate on a podcast and in it Noakes completely owned Opie - but not in a horrible way. The Carte Blanche version was pathetic.

 

It is sad, as when Noakes was in full flow about LC and IR/carb intolerance he was quite compelling. That bit was of course left out, and diabetics will still be using all sorts of excuses that will lead them to slow, horrible diabetic deaths (going blind, having their extremities amputated bit by bit etc)

 

No wonder Noakes gets angry about the nay sayers.

Well did you see how pathetically they did the Pinarello insert on CB - would've been nice to have been at the debate. Read his book - I like what I read there made sense, even Opie advocated parts of the diet.

[Paul Ruinaard]

Wow this thread has it all. I read down it and it answered most of the questions i was going to post: I was noticing that I was peeing like a fire hydrant when i got strict on the diet in the first couple of days, which is explained by ketosis adaptation.

 

However WRT the coconut oil thing, my wife knew i was looking and managed to find some at Dischem however now that i look i have noticed that it is actually a solid at room temp and that it says it was mechanically extracted.

 

I was wondering about the fact it is solid at room temperature (it says below 24 degrees C). Is this stuff the bad stuff?

 

I have it now so i will use it - but what can i use it for?

 

Can you eat it raw?

 

If there is a good coconut oil, where do i get it locally and what do i look for ?

[DaleE]

However WRT the coconut oil thing, my wife knew i was looking and managed to find some at Dischem however now that i look i have noticed that it is actually a solid at room temp and that it says it was mechanically extracted.

Yes, that's normal. I'm of the opinion that mechanically extracted is better than chemical methods.

I was wondering about the fact it is solid at room temperature (it says below 24 degrees C). Is this stuff the bad stuff?

Also normal - gets a little more liquid in summer, but not much.

I have it now so i will use it - but what can i use it for?

Cooking, sauces, coffee, hot chocolate.

Can you eat it raw?

Sure, but not everyone's cup of tea

If there is a good coconut oil, where do i get it locally and what do i look for ?

Crede is a good product. Don't know about others.

[tombeej]

However WRT the coconut oil thing, my wife knew i was looking and managed to find some at Dischem however now that i look i have noticed that it is actually a solid at room temp and that it says it was mechanically extracted.

 

I was wondering about the fact it is solid at room temperature (it says below 24 degrees C). Is this stuff the bad stuff?

 

Proper coconut oil becomes solid below 24 degrees C, absolutely correct. Here in Natal my coconut oil is permanently liquid during summer and then pretty much solid through winter.

 

Dischem has two types of coconut oil on their shelves: (1) cold pressed virgin and (2) deodorised/unflavoured/heat extracted/refined.

 

The good stuff (cold pressed virgin) is always a lot more expensive, but this is what you need to get. A lot of the folks on this thread buy theirs direct from Crede, but I'm quite happy to buy my 1L tubs from Dischem.

 

'Mechanically extracted' sounds like the simple cold pressed method. Basically what they do is drop coconuts into an oil expeller machine, which is essentially a large screw-type Press like the one in the image below. It provides the healthiest, purest form of coconut oil because it's not heat or chemically extracted or refined.

[tombeej]

Oops. That previous image looks to be of a press that uses heat extraction. Sorry about that - my bad.

 

Here's a traditional industrial cold press machine:

[Paul Ruinaard]

However WRT the coconut oil thing, my wife knew i was looking and managed to find some at Dischem however now that i look i have noticed that it is actually a solid at room temp and that it says it was mechanically extracted.

Yes, that's normal. I'm of the opinion that mechanically extracted is better than chemical methods.

I was wondering about the fact it is solid at room temperature (it says below 24 degrees C). Is this stuff the bad stuff?

Also normal - gets a little more liquid in summer, but not much.

I have it now so i will use it - but what can i use it for?

Cooking, sauces, coffee, hot chocolate.

Can you eat it raw?

Sure, but not everyone's cup of tea

If there is a good coconut oil, where do i get it locally and what do i look for ?

Crede is a good product. Don't know about others.

great thanks for all the help.

[davetapson]

Looks like the research is starting. Interesting that they could find full set of LC cyclists but battling to find a HC cyclist.

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/139322-do-you-know-this-man-uct-cycling-research-participant-needed/

[jcza]

Looks like the research is starting. Interesting that they could find full set of LC cyclists but battling to find a HC cyclist.

 

http://www.thehubsa....icipant-needed/

 

They can always ask Paul van Zweel from local Europcar team