LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[HappyMartin]

 

Speaking of food lovers - popped into one today and skimmed all the cheese and ham and olives off one of their salads- chucked in a few tomatoes and a dollop of mayo. , added some seed mix. And then bought a tub of their Curdsandwhey plain full cream yogurt.

Very nice and creamy. ( the rest is going home with me)

Tonight is left offer braaied yellow tail, flaked, added to fried up onion and mushroom. Cup of cream and bake in the oven with cheese on top.

 

What!!!! You gonna get fat and have a heart attack!!!! You should be eating whole wheat bread with margarine!!!!

 

Oh wait..........

[PrinceVlad]

Hi Guys

 

Need some advice again. I posted about two weeks ago about training and LCHF and stated that a higher effort was needed in training compared to when training on carbs, taking into account that my body is clearly not adapted yet.

 

However, apart from the training I have to say that I feel a lot better when not eating carbs compared to when I do eat carbs, so I want to continue on this way, but cannot afford to suffer in training taking into account that Bela Bela is in two months time and Tri-Rock in just over three months.

 

I have read that guys only take carbs when training or racing. My workout at this stage is a minimum of 45 minutes to about 1.5 hours in the week and longer over the weekends.

 

What I want to know is how to time the intake of carbs and what type to take. I still have a tub of 32 GI at home, will this be OK to take and when should you taker it?

 

Thanks

[Sniffie]

Hi Guys

 

Need some advice again. I posted about two weeks ago about training and LCHF and stated that a higher effort was needed in training compared to when training on carbs, taking into account that my body is clearly not adapted yet.

 

However, apart from the training I have to say that I feel a lot better when not eating carbs compared to when I do eat carbs, so I want to continue on this way, but cannot afford to suffer in training taking into account that Bela Bela is in two months time and Tri-Rock in just over three months.

 

I have read that guys only take carbs when training or racing. My workout at this stage is a minimum of 45 minutes to about 1.5 hours in the week and longer over the weekends.

 

What I want to know is how to time the intake of carbs and what type to take. I still have a tub of 32 GI at home, will this be OK to take and when should you taker it?

 

Thanks

Shorter than 1,5 hours water alone. Longer rides and races on weekends aim for roughly one bottle of energy drink and one gel or similar per hour. Start taking the energy drink 5 min before the start. If you take it earlier you will have an unwanted insulin spike.

[PrinceVlad]

Thanks for your reply Sniffie. The problem is that during the first few weeks I feel weak on any workout even if only 30 minutes.

[travisza]

Thanks for your reply Sniffie. The problem is that during the first few weeks I feel weak on any workout even if only 30 minutes.

 

With your races being an Olympic and HIM distance tri's I'm assuming you are aiming to be running at quite a high level of intensity over the relatively short distances. I'm talking about roughly greater than 60% of V02 max. If thats the case remember that at that kind of intensity you're body's preference is to burn glycogen and not fat so you will need some carbs even if you are fat adapted.

 

The low carb high fat performance thing works best for endurance athletes (IMO) - IM distance races etc.

[davetapson]

Thanks for your reply Sniffie. The problem is that during the first few weeks I feel weak on any workout even if only 30 minutes.

 

The problem with trying to become fat adapted while still trying to remain competitive is just this - you go through a stage where it is just miserable. Probably varies, but for me I couldn't even ride an average race for the first four months without it being a miserable experience, and power only really came back at 6 months or so.

 

So - you probably have a couple of options:

1. realise that you are going to be uncompetitive for a couple of months (let's say 3 - 6 depending on how easily you adapt) and deal with it.

2. introduce some carbs back into your diet (Noakes reckons 200g/day in the lastest AskProfNoakes pod cast) and then reduce by 50g per fortnight / month and see if that brings some vooma back while still keeping you on track with getting carb adapted.

3. scrap the whole thing until you have 3 - 6 months clear in your calendar and then go cold turkey.

 

Regarding taking carbs, the theory goes that you shouldn't take carbs before the event starts as this will cause an insulin spike / low blood sugar etc. I normally only start taking carbs at 30min to 1 hour into an event.

 

JCZA does a lot of racing and he takes carbs before an event. So, it may be a horses for courses thing - try:

1. having a high carb breakfast bf event and take carb before and during event

2. not having a high carb breakfast bf event, start taking carb just before or at start of event.

3. not having a high carb breakfast bf event and only take carb when well into the event.

That way you will find out what works for you.

 

Noakes' comment (in another podcast) was something like 'if you think you need to take carbs (whenever) then take them' i.e. do what you believe will help as the mental thing is probably more important than whatever is going on physically (once fat adapted).

 

It probably doesn't make a hell of a big difference physically what you do once you are fat adapted so your mental state is probably more important to the race outcome. (That's me reading between the lines BTW).

 

Noakes also says that once you are fat adapted, if you eat carbs, the glycogen goes to muscle stores, not fat. So JCZA may have something in his pre-race breakfast.

[HappyMartin]

I have always felt a bit sorry for the guys that get fat adapted then suffer when they cheat. I really believe I'm not carb intolerant so a cheat is OK.

 

Then last night after I got off the trainer I ate a pizza. Oh man. Never again. I felt like hell. Feel I'll thinking about it. Upset stomach, night sweats, bloating, bad dreams. Today I am flat and flipping starving.

 

On the race thing I still eat carbs when racing or training hard. I now use a half half mix of honey and espresso. Going to try half half condensed milk and espresso this weekend. I seriously think a carb breakfast before training or racing is a bad idea. Carbs are OK once you are sweating and straight after you finish. No other time.

[Fitter]

The problem with trying to become fat adapted while still trying to remain competitive is just this - you go through a stage where it is just miserable. Probably varies, but for me I couldn't even ride an average race for the first four months without it being a miserable experience, and power only really came back at 6 months or so.

 

So - you probably have a couple of options:

1. realise that you are going to be uncompetitive for a couple of months (let's say 3 - 6 depending on how easily you adapt) and deal with it.

2. introduce some carbs back into your diet (Noakes reckons 200g/day in the lastest AskProfNoakes pod cast) and then reduce by 50g per fortnight / month and see if that brings some vooma back while still keeping you on track with getting carb adapted.

3. scrap the whole thing until you have 3 - 6 months clear in your calendar and then go cold turkey.

 

Regarding taking carbs, the theory goes that you shouldn't take carbs before the event starts as this will cause an insulin spike / low blood sugar etc. I normally only start taking carbs at 30min to 1 hour into an event.

 

JCZA does a lot of racing and he takes carbs before an event. So, it may be a horses for courses thing - try:

1. having a high carb breakfast bf event and take carb before and during event

2. not having a high carb breakfast bf event, start taking carb just before or at start of event.

3. not having a high carb breakfast bf event and only take carb when well into the event.

That way you will find out what works for you.

 

Noakes' comment (in another podcast) was something like 'if you think you need to take carbs (whenever) then take them' i.e. do what you believe will help as the mental thing is probably more important than whatever is going on physically (once fat adapted).

 

It probably doesn't make a hell of a big difference physically what you do once you are fat adapted so your mental state is probably more important to the race outcome. (That's me reading between the lines BTW).

 

Noakes also says that once you are fat adapted, if you eat carbs, the glycogen goes to muscle stores, not fat. So JCZA may have something in his pre-race breakfast.

What you say has merit. The other side of the coin is that we are talking about a lifestyle change for a better overall quality of life. For those wishing to "have their cake and eat it" (forgive the BAD analogy) and hope to adapt AND compete, perhaps they need to make a clear call on what is more important in the long run. And the only real issue with continuing to ingest carbs, irrespective of the quantity, is the issue of "swimming with small sharks". Like any addiction, small sharks remain dangerous and seldom stop growing ...

[jcza]

Dave you're right, it takes months to become adapted. I raced (of course I use the term very loosely here) thru the period and for months I had no legs but eventually it came right. What I do now is to have carbs like sweet potato, butternut, pumpkin or similar & steak (or other protein) the night before and a muffin & cup of coffee on race day. I agree with Martin, if you want carbs have it immediately after the race. During races or hard training I will have gels and drinks else just water.

[Boesman Benson]

I've been listening to some older Jimmy Moore/Ben Greenfield podcasts again this week about athletic performance and lchf diet.

My interpretation is that they recommend somewhere between 100g and 150g CHO per day (even up to 200g of CHO) depending on your training and/or racing load in order to keep your muscle and liver glycogen at acceptable levels (70% +) for higher intensity training. They do recommend that you time most of these CHO around your training sessions ie pre-, during- and shortly after.

[jcza]

I've been listening to some older Jimmy Moore/Ben Greenfield podcasts again this week about athletic performance and lchf diet.

My interpretation is that they recommend somewhere between 100g and 150g CHO per day (even up to 200g of CHO) depending on your training and/or racing load in order to keep your muscle and liver glycogen at acceptable levels (70% +) for higher intensity training. They do recommend that you time most of these CHO around your training sessions ie pre-, during- and shortly after.

 

 

I'm definitely having a beer or 3 on Saturday!

[davetapson]

Double post

Edited June 26, 2014 by davetapson

[davetapson]

 

So, it may be a horses for courses thing - try:

1. having a high carb breakfast bf event and take carb before and during event

2. not having a high carb breakfast bf event, start taking carb just before or at start of event.

3. not having a high carb breakfast bf event and only take carb when well into the event.

That way you will find out what works for you.

 

I forgot:

4. Not having a high carb breakfast bf event and no carb during the event either!

 

If having a high carb breakfast works for you, the irony may be that carbo-loading might be beneficial

Edited June 26, 2014 by davetapson

[davetapson]

Triple post- damn phone

Edited June 26, 2014 by davetapson

[Boesman Benson]

I'm definitely having a beer or 3 on Saturday!

 

JC you will have to bring your own. Last year Hakahana did not have a licence to sell alcohol.

[jcza]

JC you will have to bring your own. Last year Hakahana did not have a licence to sell alcohol.

 

Cascades?