LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[davetapson]

@davetapson

 

Please add links to Mark Allen site.

 

Thanks

 

http://www.markallenonline.com/

 

Mark Allen's story (for those that don't know the story, MA is one of the greatest Ironman champs - trained by Maff.) - read this: http://www.markallen...cles.aspx?AID=2

 

Note: it took him nearly a YEAR of Maff HR discipline before he was back to where he started - and then became one of the greatest Ironmen champs ever...

Edited May 27, 2013 by davetapson

[jcza]

jcza - my understanding is that you only train at Maffetone's 180 formula hr. You race as per normal - tongue hanging out on front wheel stuff...

 

I've done a lot of thinking on Maff's stuff. This is what I've distilled it to.

1. Maff says train at 180 - age (which for me = 180 - 49 - 131).

2. Maff says NEVER to exceed this in training.

3. Maff says that you will plateau at times, but hang in there.

4. Maff alludes to the fact that you will do a lot of racing, and that the earlier races act as intensity sessions for the main races of the season.

 

1. Mark Allen says train like Maff says.

2. BUT Mark Allen says that when you plateau, do some (not much) intensity sessions and that will fix the plateau'ing.

3. Mark Allen says and then carry on as before when not plateau'ing.

 

So, what Dave takes away from this is:

1. Training the Maff way gives you an ENORMOUS base and huge aerobic capacity / capability.

2. Maff training DOES require some intensive efforts - if you race rarely (like me) then you do not have weekly or fortnightly 'early' races to act as intensity session for your main races.

3. So even if Maff says 'never exceed Maff 180 formula', I believe that you do need to work some kind of high intensity sessions into your Maff training - which goes a bit against what Maff preaches.

 

Have a look at Mark Allen's site to get his view, which in my eyes is Maff mk2.

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying this IS how it is, I'm just saying this is how I think it is. YMMV. Terms and conditions apply etc.

 

Thanks Dave, I'm a year younger than you but I don't think I have ever seen my HR at those levels when on the bike (road or MTB). My lowest zone is set from 0 - 130 and my max HR is 190. I don't train as much as I should and race way more than I should. I'm just not sure why at times my HR is so high (>175) yet I feel ok and can continue.

[jcza]

http://www.markallenonline.com/

 

Mark Allen's story (for those that don't know the story, MA is one of the greatest Ironman champs - trained by Maff.) - read this: http://www.markallen...cles.aspx?AID=2

 

Note: it took him nearly a YEAR of Maff HR discipline before he was back to where he started - and then became one of the greatest Ironmen champs ever...

 

Great read I'll be trying this

[DaleE]

Shew .... will take lots of patience to follow Mr Allens advice!! I cant imagine training below 140bpm ... seem to hit that on every incline ..... and there's not a lot of flat roads round here

 

On the other hand, that's about 75% of my HR max, and I recall there was an RER table someplace showing fat vs carb burn and carb burn only really kicked in at around that level.

[Grondpad]

I see there is Macadamia Nut Butter for sale in the classifieds. Anyone have experience with the supplier or product?

 

https://www.bikehub.co.za/classifieds/49997-macadamia-almond-peanut-butter/

[davetapson]

Thanks Dave, I'm a year younger than you but I don't think I have ever seen my HR at those levels when on the bike (road or MTB). My lowest zone is set from 0 - 130 and my max HR is 190. I don't train as much as I should and race way more than I should. I'm just not sure why at times my HR is so high (>175) yet I feel ok and can continue.

Yeh - my max is about 172 and if tried to hit 190, I'd pop a foofy valve. Maff's formula is pretty much an average - he says you can go and have all the fancy tests done, but the likelihood is that you'd end up with 180 - age.

 

However, for people who fall out of the middle of the bell curve, and you sound like one, then it won't work. I'm probably the opposite to you - my hr is low and I could never hit high hr's. Maybe as a rule of thumb you could work with 190/172 x (180 - 48) = 146? That's go to be as good as anything and will compensate for your naturally higher hr?

 

Even so, initially it's bloody hard to ride anything that is not flat or downhill and maintain a hr of <= 131 - however, it does change over time, and after a while it's quite hard work to maintain a hr of 131. (131 for me that is.)

[davetapson]

I did try Maff training (as far as poss - I had hills on my commute that would have taken forever to ride over if I tried to keep below Maff's 180 formula) before last years Sani, and I had my best ever ride. I also did more training than I'd ever done before, so who's to say which made the difference. I did find that I was capable of extended long pulls of med/high intensity which I suppose is the advantage of the big aerobic base that Maffetoning gives you.

 

This year I've been using training peaks software which suits my over-analytic nature and love of anything that pretends to measure fitness / fatigue levels. However, I'm quite tempted to go back to Maffetoning - I think it suits the LCHF way of life. The other thing is the Training Peaks workouts don't lend themselves to commuting - tend to vary considerably in distance. Maffetoning, you don't really care - just ride at <= x bpm and all is cool.

 

If I did do it, I would however add high intensity sessions - I'd probably add alternate intervals and tempo sessions at a rate of 8 to 10 Maff sessions to 1 interval/tempo session.

[Roux 1]

I did try Maff training (as far as poss - I had hills on my commute that would have taken forever to ride over if I tried to keep below Maff's 180 formula) before last years Sani, and I had my best ever ride. I also did more training than I'd ever done before, so who's to say which made the difference. I did find that I was capable of extended long pulls of med/high intensity which I suppose is the advantage of the big aerobic base that Maffetoning gives you.

 

This year I've been using training peaks software which suits my over-analytic nature and love of anything that pretends to measure fitness / fatigue levels. However, I'm quite tempted to go back to Maffetoning - I think it suits the LCHF way of life. The other thing is the Training Peaks workouts don't lend themselves to commuting - tend to vary considerably in distance. Maffetoning, you don't really care - just ride at <= x bpm and all is cool.

 

If I did do it, I would however add high intensity sessions - I'd probably add alternate intervals and tempo sessions at a rate of 8 to 10 Maff sessions to 1 interval/tempo session.

 

I found the same result as you on Maffetone principal. High hour volume per week is possible. Some guy by the name of Eddie Merckx once said " ride alot"

[davetapson]

Going back to LCHF stuff - I had a couple of HC weeks before Sani - we took leave down on the KZN S. Coast and my folks came up from the E. Cape so I didn't want to spoil the fun by being all obsessive. And then Day 3 of Sani I succumbed to all the Sani deliciousness and went beserk on chelsea buns etc.

 

So, was back with reflux, burping and f4rting like before I started LCHF'ing.

 

Post Sani I've got back on track, although not excessively so, and I've found that I've been losing on ave 200g per day. I was up about 2kg, and am now not far off what I was pre-Sani. Am going to carry on with what I'm eating now and see where I stabilise. I previously stabilised on about 76kg, wouldn't mind being in the 74's.

 

Diet: scrambled eggs made with cream with cheese or salami or bacon for breakfast, avo/olives for snack, salad with tuna or supper leftovers for lunch, macadamia or almonds for snack, protein and various green squashes/broccolli/cauliflower for supper plus a glass of red and a square of 70%/85% lindt choc. Occasional double cream greek yog, occasional beer. Occasional toasted egg & bacon sammich when the cafe at work buggers the order up. High fat mayonnaise (Woolies extra creamy - yeah! - thanks to who recommended it on the old thread) or butter or olive oil added as appropriate.

 

PS: I haven't check ketones as I don't want to be disappointed! Will test on Friday and see if I'm ketotic again...

Edited May 28, 2013 by davetapson

[jcza]

Yeh - my max is about 172 and if tried to hit 190, I'd pop a foofy valve. Maff's formula is pretty much an average - he says you can go and have all the fancy tests done, but the likelihood is that you'd end up with 180 - age.

 

However, for people who fall out of the middle of the bell curve, and you sound like one, then it won't work. I'm probably the opposite to you - my hr is low and I could never hit high hr's. Maybe as a rule of thumb you could work with 190/172 x (180 - 48) = 146? That's go to be as good as anything and will compensate for your naturally higher hr?

 

Even so, initially it's bloody hard to ride anything that is not flat or downhill and maintain a hr of <= 131 - however, it does change over time, and after a while it's quite hard work to maintain a hr of 131. (131 for me that is.)

 

Thanks Dave I find this very interesting. My concern is that my HR seem to vary and I think it may have to do with fatigue. Too may races and not enough rest!

[P.A.K.]

So I was listening to Living La Vida Low Carb podcast (http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/7914/682-guest-hosts-ben-greenfield-and-brock-on-the-dangers-of-extreme-carb-restriction/) and they mentioned that yo can 'trick' your body into ketosis.

 

While following a low-carb diet, take a slighty higher amount of carbs (more than 100g) and then consume a lot of MCT or coconut oil throughtout the day. This basically replaces a lot of glucose (from the carbs) in your body while allowing your body enough glucose for muscle building.

[davetapson]

Here's a weird one for you guys who have lost weight - when you're washing your hair/face, can you feel that your head is skinnier...? I can. It's bizarre...

[jcza]

Here's a weird one for you guys who have lost weight - when you're washing your hair/face, can you feel that your head is skinnier...? I can. It's bizarre...

 

Can't say my head feels different but in certain areas my skin feel tighter

[wonduhboy]

I see there is Macadamia Nut Butter for sale in the classifieds. Anyone have experience with the supplier or product?

 

http://www.thehubsa....-peanut-butter/

Haven't tried their stuff, but it seems like there are enough ppl in GP to make an order worthwhile.

Also they are pretty well priced on other nuts as well.

[wonduhboy]

Does anyone know where you can get Ucan in JHB? I know it was in the old thread...

[htone]

Does anyone know where you can get Ucan in JHB? I know it was in the old thread...

 

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