CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[kandui]

PPA and CSA: The way forward

 

In February 2012, CSA wrote PPA out of its constitution despite PPA being granted entrenched rights in perpetuity in CSA’s founding constitution of 2004; PPA having been a primary motivator for unification prior to 2004.

 

Amongst others, the CSA founding constitution granted PPA the rights to register our members and run our affairs as we have done since PPA was formed some 30 years ago, including the right to coordinate our funride calendar without requiring pre-approval or sanctioning from CSA.

Since February 2012, PPA has been trying to resolve the issue with CSA through various meetings, emails and other forms of communication, with no forward movement on the matter. In an attempt to finalise the matter, PPA has now filed an application in this regard with the High Court of South Africa.

“We are concerned that cyclists, and cycling as a whole, will be penalized through the lack of finalization of the current situation,” said PPA Chairman Steve Hayward. “We again want to reiterate that PPA did not ask to leave the CSA fold, and are resorting to legal means since all other attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful. We simply want to continue as we have done since 1976, promoting cycling and the rights of cyclists in various ways.”

The founding affidavit can be found at this link.

The Notice of Motion can be found here

 

Speaks for itself!!!!!!

PPA had asked CSA repeatedly to respond , but no response was forthcoming from CSA. As Exco, we took the decision to force CSA to respond via the High Court as we were of the opinion that CSA would continue to drag their heels and hold out with a decision.

CSA had promised to respond to PPA and never did so.

PPA does not want the "fun ride" component of an event to be sanctioned by CSA, where riders have to pay a license fee. League riders, no problem, but why should someone who is just riding the 5km loop be asked to pay for a CSA day license? Also, PPA doesn't just want to hand over funds to CSA and not know where they are being spent.

This is simply put, but in essence what it's about.

Edited June 12, 2013 by kandui

[ccc2]

PPA and CSA: The way forward

 

In February 2012, CSA wrote PPA out of its constitution despite PPA being granted entrenched rights in perpetuity in CSA’s founding constitution of 2004; PPA having been a primary motivator for unification prior to 2004.

 

Amongst others, the CSA founding constitution granted PPA the rights to register our members and run our affairs as we have done since PPA was formed some 30 years ago, including the right to coordinate our funride calendar without requiring pre-approval or sanctioning from CSA.

Since February 2012, PPA has been trying to resolve the issue with CSA through various meetings, emails and other forms of communication, with no forward movement on the matter. In an attempt to finalise the matter, PPA has now filed an application in this regard with the High Court of South Africa.

“We are concerned that cyclists, and cycling as a whole, will be penalized through the lack of finalization of the current situation,” said PPA Chairman Steve Hayward. “We again want to reiterate that PPA did not ask to leave the CSA fold, and are resorting to legal means since all other attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful. We simply want to continue as we have done since 1976, promoting cycling and the rights of cyclists in various ways.”

The founding affidavit can be found at this link.

The Notice of Motion can be found here

 

 

This was on the PPA website. It seems they have a historical precedent from when CSA was formed, it will be interesting to see if a Judge upholds that precedent.

 

the csa did'nt write the ppa out of its constitution. this is all smoke and mirrors. which 1 of the 9 provinces of the rsa will the ppa affiliate to? its as simple as that. affiliate to a province and carry on as normal.

and another tip - ditch the lawyers from your committee and you might start seeing progres.

[HappyMartin]

Taking a side in this is difficult. Bit like choosing between bowel cancer and lung cancer if you ask me.

 

At least CSA does something for me. When I race there is a commisair following the group and race marshals on bikes. When I fell last year in a race I at least got to speak to the commisair and make suggestions regarding safety.

 

Don't get any of that in the Argus as an old licensed rider so I don't do the Argus anymore. Why should I support PPA in this? I live in Joburg. Most entrants to the Argus are from outside of the PPA jurisdiction I am told.

 

Still for all the money collected by the CSA they can't even put a seeding index together.

 

Like I said. Bowel cancer or lung cancer. Hard to choose.

[ccc2]

the csa operated quiet smoothly ito of its founding constitution until Sascoc came up with the idea that all sporting codes have to have 9 provincial bodies only.

every other sport has a national body, if you take part in that sport u belong to a club or association that is affiliated to that national body.

ppa want to operate outside of the national body. huh. if their court application is successful then every other sport will be affected. it will be open season. i'll organise a soccer tourament in CT stadium , invite Ajax CT, Ajax Amsterdam, Bloem Celtic and Glasgow Celtic. i'll make a packet and the teams,public will have no recourse back to me if i cock up.

[DJR]

Taking a side in this is difficult. Bit like choosing between bowel cancer and lung cancer if you ask me.

 

At least CSA does something for me. When I race there is a commisair following the group and race marshals on bikes. When I fell last year in a race I at least got to speak to the commisair and make suggestions regarding safety.

 

Don't get any of that in the Argus as an old licensed rider so I don't do the Argus anymore. Why should I support PPA in this? I live in Joburg. Most entrants to the Argus are from outside of the PPA jurisdiction I am told.

 

Still for all the money collected by the CSA they can't even put a seeding index together.

 

Like I said. Bowel cancer or lung cancer. Hard to choose.

 

You sound like Unhappy Martin

[Icycling]

<p>I am in 2 mind here but have been thinking long and hard over this 1 for a few months and may well be asking WPCA to organize events for the racing cyclist on the same dates as PPA event. Yup the route will not be quite as spatular as the PPA events and may end up just been circuit racing (hopefully closed to traffic circuit racing - possibly even bringing the racing to the suburbs)! The irony of this all is for less than what PPA spends on investment each months as mentioned over R200 000.00 - the carpet could be quite easily be pulled from the road fun rides! Loose the league riders and their "tag on" the PPA road could well become a thing of the past within a season or 2 as the organizers will just not be making money!

 

10 x WPCA events at R10 000 prize money sponsorship / donation R100 000.00. WPCA this past winter have shown their ability to put on decent events for the racing cyclist just on entry fee and then still offer more prize money than PPA offer! I do feel the racing cyclist will come to event even if PPA has event on the same day with the knowledge that theirs R10 000 prize money on the day! This is basically what happens in MTB racing - correct?

 

Naturally if PPA were to come to the party here and start to show willingness to also spend additional money on the racing cyclist in the form of respectable prize money and we the racing cyclist could leverage the sponsorship / donation by a multiple of say 5 to a max of what

Edited June 12, 2013 by Icycling

[ccc2]

Taking a side in this is difficult. Bit like choosing between bowel cancer and lung cancer if you ask me.

 

At least CSA does something for me. When I race there is a commisair following the group and race marshals on bikes. When I fell last year in a race I at least got to speak to the commisair and make suggestions regarding safety.

 

Don't get any of that in the Argus as an old licensed rider so I don't do the Argus anymore. Why should I support PPA in this? I live in Joburg. Most entrants to the Argus are from outside of the PPA jurisdiction I am told.

 

Still for all the money collected by the CSA they can't even put a seeding index together.

 

Like I said. Bowel cancer or lung cancer. Hard to choose.

 

i agree - testicular cancer for me.

nice to have but i wouldn't die without them.

ppa / csa, work together for everyones sake.

Edited June 12, 2013 by ccc2

[Gambithunt]

Anyone else find it hard to read due to the non use of any spacers or line breaks?

[DJR]

the csa operated quiet smoothly ito of its founding constitution until Sascoc came up with the idea that all sporting codes have to have 9 provincial bodies only.

every other sport has a national body, if you take part in that sport u belong to a club or association that is affiliated to that national body.

ppa want to operate outside of the national body. huh. if their court application is successful then every other sport will be affected. it will be open season. i'll organise a soccer tourament in CT stadium , invite Ajax CT, Ajax Amsterdam, Bloem Celtic and Glasgow Celtic. i'll make a packet and the teams,public will have no recourse back to me if i cock up.

 

If the national or provincial soccer bodies are too lame to do what the public wants, what's wrong with someone else doing that? Rugby league? Kerry Packer cricket? IPL indian cricket? Freedom anyone?

 

If the PPA supply the bulk of the funding as the "Western Cape provincial body", why should it be happy to have 1 vote out of 9? If CSA wants the money, they should give the PPA something in return. Freedom to operate as they do in the Cape or the power within CSA in line with how much they contribute. CSA can't have the money to use as they see fit without PPA having any say over it. Not with CSAs' history of unsteady financial management and PPAs' decades old track record of solid financial management.

[scotty]

You don't need a Racetec chip to ride the Argus , or any other event for that matter where Racetec does the timing. If you don't have one, you just don't get a time.

 

From the Argus website, agree that NO other race is this a requirement.

 

2.13 A rider must participate with a timing identification and shall not ride with another rider’s number or timing identification without adhering to the substitution procedure referred to in clause 1.4 above. A person who has entered shall not give his/her number and/or timing identification to another person to use. - See more at: http://www.cycletour...h.OztOdhfD.dpuf

Edited June 12, 2013 by scotty

[Stretch]

Taking a side in this is difficult. Bit like choosing between bowel cancer and lung cancer if you ask me.

 

At least CSA does something for me. When I race there is a commisair following the group and race marshals on bikes. When I fell last year in a race I at least got to speak to the commisair and make suggestions regarding safety.

 

Don't get any of that in the Argus as an old licensed rider so I don't do the Argus anymore. Why should I support PPA in this? I live in Joburg. Most entrants to the Argus are from outside of the PPA jurisdiction I am told.

 

Still for all the money collected by the CSA they can't even put a seeding index together.

 

Like I said. Bowel cancer or lung cancer. Hard to choose.

I am glad someone mentioned the role of the commisair at a race..I urge anyone to take notice what their rule is in a race. . Csa don't just rock up and take money they are involved the entire race..

 

for the seeding index..csa did have something lined up with sponsorship from Kia.....wonder what happened with that...

Edited June 12, 2013 by Stretch

[Icycling]

Don't know what happened to my edit but need to get to the track now so cannot be on the hub!

[scotty]

Says the 18000+ members who belong to the largest leisure cycling association in RSA. Other provinces have a piecemeal approach, whilst the Western Cape is unified under a single banner. PPA are entitled to appoint a single timing contractor that is geographically local with a national presence whichl affords it's members uniformity and a single results profile.

 

Other races that require a Racetec transponder are:

The Herald VW Cycle Tour 106km, Eastern Cape

Optimum Berge en Dale Classic 97km, Gauteng

99er Cycle Tour 108km, Western Cape

Dis-chem Ride for Sight 125km, Gauteng

Nedbank Cycle Challenge 100km, Namibia

Daily Dispatch Cycle Tour 100km, Eastern Cape

Cape Argus Pick n Pay MTB Challenge 52km & 75km, Western Cape

Wilro Lions Cycle Challenge 114km, Gauteng

aQuelle Tour Durban 105km, KZN

Pick n Pay Weekend Argus Rotary Knysna MTB 50km & 80km, Southern Cape

Mnt2Mnt Cycle Challenge 106km, Limpopo

Lost City Cycle Event 115km, Northwest Province

Lost City Mountain Bike Event 70km, NorthWest province

D2D Cycling Race 93km, Gauteng

Rand Water Race For Victory 110km, Gauteng

Kumba Iron Ore Classic 105km, Northern Cape

Pennypinchers Die Burger Lions Karoo to Coast 100km MTB Challenge 100km, Southern Cape

Cycle Lab Cape Cobra Challenge 85km, Western Cape

Bidvest Steiner Penny Pinchers GOK Cycle Tour, Southern Cape

PPA One Tonner 156km, Western Cape

Amashova Durban Classic 106km, Durban

Satellite Classic, PTA

MTN OFM Classic 107km, OFS

Momentum 94.7 Cycle Challenge 97.4km, Gauteng

Die Burger Cycle Tour 92km, Western Cape

 

These of course exclude the balance of the PPA calender, both MTB and Road, and numerous other races that prefer Racetec's organisation and methodology to the other timing companies.

Nice list but a number of the Gauteng races such as D2D, R4V, Berg & Dale, Wilro used to be Championchip, however as PPA/Racetec/Argus would not recognize them as as seeding, despite being tougher than Argus, they've been forced to switch. The 94.7 followed last year and excluded all races other than Racetec despite using them previous years.

[madmarc]

the csa did'nt write the ppa out of its constitution. this is all smoke and mirrors. which 1 of the 9 provinces of the rsa will the ppa affiliate to? its as simple as that. affiliate to a province and carry on as normal.

and another tip - ditch the lawyers from your committee and you might start seeing progres.

 

Good point it's always the lawyers who complicate things

[Oufy MTB (Roadie)]

I recall from my volleyball days in the 90's there were constant debates/fights between WPVolleyball and Volleyball SA. it has a similar smell to this this thread. WPVolleyball even went as far to dissaffiliate from the national body. the same questions were asked? what does the national body do for the sport? the top WP volleyball players hardly got international exposure and we had to have cake sales for someone to go overseas. Despite our beaches, we can't even attract FIVB beach volleyball events, never mind national tournaments. national bodies, grrrrr, very political too, always fatcats involved.

 

for me, if I were PPA, i would join but not part with the money.

 

CSA vs PPA, at the end of the day I hope cycling wins

['Dale]

Anyone else find it hard to read due to the non use of any spacers or line breaks?

 

Yebo yeah