Ullrich admits to blood doping... Finally.

[JGR]

How has Lance outed the UCI? Hamilton and Landis got the ball rolling there if I remember correctly.

 

Lance is very far from having told us the whole story. There are many people invested in him keeping silent about a lot of what went on.

 

What irks me most - continues to annoy me - is the warped part of human nature - displayed here and elsewhere - that idolises a selfish sociopath. Regardless of the fact that he cares not one iota for anyone but himself. I reckon many people just wish that they too could be free to behave like dickwads. I think there's a parallel there with African politics.

Perhaps I didnt explain properly - I meant IF he had bribed them why would he not ought them now? Given they have laid into him? Many brilliant people are sociopaths, weird, selfish, horrible people - how much do you know about Einstein for example - it does not mean he was not a genius.

 

To say besides all of the above he as an incredible athlete is not idiolising him - its an objective view. Great athlete, terrible person - I fail to see how that is a warped view.

 

Your dislike of him as a person clouds your view of him as an athlete

[Gambithunt]

JU and LA made me love cycling, I get why they doped and although it was wrong I still hold them in high regard and wish that the excitement they brought to the sport was still around.

[Christie]

 

 

According to the narrator on the 100-year anniversary Tour de France feature on Super Sport...

Thomas Voeckler,,, and that is the reason he has not won the tour yet.

It could easily be the other way around, too - his jump to suddenly be a GC contender in 2011, plus strong riding from the whole Europcar team is perhaps too good to be true.

[Agteros]

There was a doc on the Jamaician sprinters where they looked at the fastest sprinters and their genetics ect. Ultimately they deduced it was more nurture than nature. Their premise was that sprinting is their top sport, from a young ages there are so many running races, school level. It is also very cheap to start as opposed to many other sports. It is a good way for people to raise themselves out of poverty ect. Much like football in Brazil , long distance running in Ethiopa ..... It is also why All Blacks are so good, rugby is a religion there and to a large extend here in South Africa as well. Where there are excellent systems and coaching from a very young age. Take yesterdays game against Samoa - physically they are specimens but lack the technical knowledge ..why do you think there are not many golfers from 3rd world countries? anywho my 2c'

So where are the next wave of Jamaicans now that Bolt is slowing down? There was this sudden 'spike' in performance, and Jamaica was the country to be beat for a while. Fluke? Maybe. Nurture... maybe, but where are the others.

 

There is big money is sporting trophies & records. Better to assume they are all doped to the gills (or within the legal limits/leves), and then NOT be surprised when they are caught out / come clean. Far less emotional outbreaks and defences that way round.

 

Cynical? Maybe, but the course of action with the fewest false hits on it. So maybe not as gullible as assuming athletes don't doubt.

 

I'd rather be cynical but right than gullible

[Baaisikilist]

While we're on the subject... There's a program on channel 181 at 20:57 called Cycling's Greatest Fraud, about Lance. Apparently with new/recent interviews with members of his inner circle.

 

*sorry, see it was already posted here https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/127579-speak-of-the-devil-armstrong/#entry1965263

Edited June 23, 2013 by MTBaaisikilist

[HappyMartin]

Sure there was doping in cycling, a lot of doping, and sure there is still doping. What bothers me is the world view that any excellence is an indication of illegal performance enhancing programs.

 

Anyone richer than me must be stealing, anyone faster than me must be doping, is a sad mental state to adopt. It is sure to inhibit our own chances of success and excellence and will certainly not make us happy. All it serves to do is console us in our mediocrity.

[Agteros]

Sure there was doping in cycling, a lot of doping, and sure there is still doping. What bothers me is the world view that any excellence is an indication of illegal performance enhancing programs.

 

Anyone richer than me must be stealing, anyone faster than me must be doping, is a sad mental state to adopt. It is sure to inhibit our own chances of success and excellence and will certainly not make us happy. All it serves to do is console us in our mediocrity.

No... natural selection get them to the top rung in their sports. dope keeps them there

[DIPSLICK]

While we're on the subject... There's a program on channel 181 at 20:57 called Cycling's Greatest Fraud, about Lance. Apparently with new/recent interviews with members of his inner circle.

Thanks lets see how they ¥£#k the escape goat hard again

[JGR]

So where are the next wave of Jamaicans now that Bolt is slowing down? There was this sudden 'spike' in performance, and Jamaica was the country to be beat for a while. Fluke? Maybe. Nurture... maybe, but where are the others.

 

There is big money is sporting trophies & records. Better to assume they are all doped to the gills (or within the legal limits/leves), and then NOT be surprised when they are caught out / come clean. Far less emotional outbreaks and defences that way round.

 

Cynical? Maybe, but the course of action with the fewest false hits on it. So maybe not as gullible as assuming athletes don't doubt.

 

I'd rather be cynical but right than gullible

 

http://www.npr.org/2012/05/04/151956595/a-need-for-speed-inside-jamaicas-sprint-factory

 

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/opinion/mailbag/why-so-many-jamaicans-are-world-class-sprinters/article_94fda32a-e2a2-11e1-a84b-0019bb2963f4.html

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-secrets-behind-the-success-of-jamaican-sprinter-usain-bolt-a-846389-2.html

 

You are welcome to believe what you like - I was just mentioning something I saw

[Spark]

I don't justify the way Armstrong won, but todays Tour winners,like Wiggo, wouldn't stand a chance against a clean Armstrong and Ulrich. Now kill me.

[Agteros]

http://www.npr.org/2...-sprint-factory

 

http://napavalleyreg...19bb2963f4.html

 

http://www.spiegel.d...a-846389-2.html

 

You are welcome to believe what you like - I was just mentioning something I saw

Scanned through those. All it does is talking up the phenomena of Bolt & co. Would love to see where the next generation of world beaters are.

 

Good publicity, but that is about all it is.

 

Replace all of those with Armstrong / Cancer / Determination.... same story of human perseverance in the face of adversary and challenge. Good motivational stuff but not a real explanation.

 

I'd love to be wrong, trust me but I just call it as I see it. Sport has been tainted by money and that is a fact. Remove the money and we'll get truer results again, but until then the best sport can be is entertainment - and then the question should be asked: Why have a ban / limitation on PEDs?

[DIPSLICK]

I don't justify the way Armstrong won, but todays Tour winners,like Wiggo, wouldn't stand a chance against a clean Armstrong and Ulrich. Now kill me.

Won't know about any of them being CLEAN but IMHO he would whip them good

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Thanks lets see how they ¥£#k the escape goat hard again

 

To be honest Lance bought a lot of his present issues down on himself, he was living the good life on stolen time and money and it may have worked, but he became brash, insensitive, arrogant and thought he was untouchable,.............and traits like that seldom go unpunished.

 

As far as Jan and his admission goes, I dont really care, I considered him (and this view hasnt changed) a real human, he had failings and he admitted them, he drank a bit too much, drove too fast, partied too hard and enjoyed a good meal, he never maliciously hurt anyone, he never sued anyone for talking about him, he was just Big Jan, .......I like him, ..........and still do, he is someone I think I could sit down with and enjoy a beer,........LA not so much.

[eddy]

I don't justify the way Armstrong won, but todays Tour winners,like Wiggo, wouldn't stand a chance against a clean Armstrong and Ulrich. Now kill me.

 

Are you sure ?.

 

How many of these names do you recognise?

 

Laurent Dufaux

Vicente Aparicio

Jean-Cyril Robin

Arsenio Gonzalez

Federico Muñoz

Vladimir Poulnikov

Massimo Podenzana

Laudelino Cubino

Laurent Brochard

Beat Zberg

Yvon Ledanois

Johan Bruyneel

Oscar Pelliccioli

Alberto Elli

Jean-François Bernard

Herminio Diaz

 

 

I thought not. However, they are the 15 guys that finished immediately ahead of LA in the last tour before he got the Ferrari special treatment.

 

Two more things, on LA's own version, he was already doping (just not as sophisticatedly as he later did) ; and

 

There where 20 other guys who also beat him.

 

LA was a good one day rider, but he was never going to be anything but a grand tour work horse without hemoglobin manipulation, something he was better at that most.

Edited June 23, 2013 by eddy

[Spark]

Are you sure ?.

 

How many of these names do you recognise?

 

Laurent Dufaux

Vicente Aparicio

Jean-Cyril Robin

Arsenio Gonzalez

Federico Muñoz

Vladimir Poulnikov

Massimo Podenzana

Laudelino Cubino

Laurent Brochard

Beat Zberg

Yvon Ledanois

Johan Bruyneel

Oscar Pelliccioli

Alberto Elli

Jean-François Bernard

Herminio Diaz

 

 

I thought not. However, they are the 15 guys that finished immediately ahead of LA in the last tour before he got the Ferrari special treatment.

 

Two more things, on LA's own version, he was already doping (just not as sophisticatedly as he later did) ; and

 

There where 20 other guys who also beat him.

 

LA was a good one day rider, but he was never going to be anything but a grand tour work horse without hemoglobin manipulation, something he was better at that most.

Yes , I do. Alberto Elli, came to meet him personally. Stayed in CT for quite a while. Everybody knew why

[T-Bob]

Brilliant article on "The Roar" - Well worth a read if you've been on this thread.

 

 

Stephen Roche, Pat McQuaid and the loss of innocence