Jonkershoek Closure

[Roofdier]

Specialised put a lot of money into the fun we have currently at Jonkershoek. Please be mindful of that. Before you start criticising, start to be part of the solution.

Specialised is rightfully displeased that somebody else is ambushing and not contributing. If these parties can prove there commitment, then Bobby will be the first to acknowledge it.

Thanks for the effort over the years. Mtb'ers really appreciate it

[DJR]

Unless someone else have pictures of the very offensive signs, perhaps for those who didn't read through the whole thread, this is what it looks like.

[DJR]

....and this is what the S logo on all the trail signage look like.

[Pappa Bear]

Would not branding the place mean that Specialized will stop with their demo days at jonkers?

 

 

 

[BobbyBehan]

Fellow Cyclists,

Thanks for the positive commentary, which we will always appreciate. Quite honestly and from a personal point of view, I don't want to get into a tit-for-tat. Our interests are pure and simple; the establishment and creation of a sustainable and awesome trail network in the Stellenbosch area. From a work perspective (Specialized) there are easier ways to promote a brand that don't involve spending considerable time meeting Cape Pine, Cape Nature, Deputy Mayor, members of the town municipality, members from Stellenbosch University who own significant tracts of land, conservancy / environmental groups, landowners, opinion leaders in cycling, event organisers, auction contributors, our trail planning group and so forth. The list goes on. My head is shaved, but through many of these meetings there were times when I felt like pulling my hair out, that is, if I had hair ... HAHA! This has taken a lot of time, work and positive energy. From my own personal point of view this has been a labour of love and not a branding exercise. We enjoy riding the trail ...

There have been some pertinent points brought up and questions, which I will try to address.

1) @ DJR We don't know if there's anything legal or illegal about The Scott signs. For us it was a more a matter of what is right from wrong and more importantly what is needed in order to help sustain the trail development drive.

2) @ Pappa Bear - Why did Specialized brand the trails in the first place. To be honest, many who donated and saw how much Specialized were giving back proposed that we should brand the trails as-well as placing big branding on the gate, the latter which we declined. At the time and I did mention this in my first post, I was not totally convinced about this, hence why the branding was subtle in the first place. In hindsight I believe we should not have put the signs up. Our perspective is that if 10 brands support the trail network, this is always better than 1. However and FACT to-date; there's only one brand supporting the trail network, coupled with generosity of individuals from the community.

3) Cape Pine. We don't want to make this too much of a problem; remember they had problems with cyclists in the past. In a delicate way we are going to let them know what is going on and propose a branding free zone. They do lease out the coffee shop so we are sure they must have a say / some form of control.

4) @ i24. If you go back to my first post. Giniel and I saw eye-to-eye on cutting through the BS and getting the work done. We can try to create a mandate, develop the platform for raising funds etc etc. However and these are the facts. As a result of this 15 page thread only three people have reached out to me directly wishing to contribute. Our small group realise so much can be done, however, our time is limited and therefore we need to work as effectively as possible in order to get the trails maintained and developed.

5) @ Dick our goals are that as many brands contribute as possible, even if that brand were Coke per your example.

6) There are no threats to close the trails. The reality is as follows. Upon quick calculation there are 24 sections of trails in Jonkershoek. A section basically implies from the 'trail head' to the next 'fire road'. Therefore Canary in it's entirety constitutes 6 sections. Although not officially closed there are 5 segments that are unrideable either because they are overgrown and / in a poor state. These are not high speed trails, so we don't believe there is a safety issue. There are 2 sections which are high speed trails and badly need work. These are dangerous and should be closely. There are 3 sections all high speed, which urgently need work as parts are dangerous. Without work they will need to be closed; actually it could be argued that they too should be closed. Double Black Diamond also needs some work, but it is safe currently. In summary urgent maintenance is required on 10 sections equating to about 40% of the total trail sections. There are no threat to close trails. This is just the reality.

Last week, we heard that a rider crashed in Coetzenburg and split his tongue in two. While waiting for an ambulance another rider had a bad fall in the exact same place. Although there will be crashes and falls (it's the risk of doing this amazing sport) we need to ensure the trails are safe, albeit offering varying levels of challenge with notice signage to support such.

7) We don't want to aggravate Cape Nature and / or Cape Pine, however, we will endeavour to gain more support. In one of our meetings with Cape Pine they were adamant that they were closing down Tokai to cyclists because of x, y and z riders were doing. They were unhappy! In a positive way we argued a fair point. Although, I have not ridden in Tokai recently, judging from the thread the trails have progressed positively there which is great news.

8) @ Leona one idea was to have brands contribute to sections i.e. brand x sponsors this section etc. To-date and the reality is that monies are coming from a small section of riders and brands have not expressed interest.

9) @ Hellwarp - you bring up a good point. Why develop faster gravity style trails especially with arguably higher maintenance needs. As a group we want to progress mountain biking. Selfishly we too want to be challenged more and more, while also considering all riders thereby offering varying levels of trails. Another facet we considered is that many kids who are taking up XCO racing are going to compete in Pietermaritzburg for example. Because they are not being exposed to massive drop-offs and rock gardens many are unable to ride the world cup course there. In proposing to create a proper XCO course in Coetzenburg we want to offer kids (and all riders) the opportunities to be tested on all levels of technical difficultly. When compared to other bike parks such as Whistler our trails are pretty tame. Last year many local riders struggled on the XCO Course in Pietermaritzburg.

10) Scott not being asked to contribute. On Monday May 19 I personally reached out to Joggie (I believe marketing manager at Scott). I personally don't know anyone else at Scott. After playing some phone-tag we finally spoke on Wednesday May 21. I explained the situation to Joggie. He was not aware of the amount of personal time we had put in. I challenged Joggie to make Jonkershoek a brand free zone and match Specialized cent for cent on contributions. He said that the reasoning behind supporting The Cafe was as a marketing move V Specialized. We totally get that. I requested that we all work together Specialized / Scott / other brands / all riders. His stance at that point was to continue as is.

In sync with the above I also reached out to my friend Linus Van Onselen, owner of Flandria, who has a direct link to Scott. I explained to Linus the situation. Linus contacted Scott (I believe David) requesting contribution. The reply I got from Linus was that Scott were not interested in contributing.

I reiterate - Specialized are challenging Scott to match them cent for cent on contribution towards trail development.

11) @ Rouxenator our goals are to help develop and maintain trails throughout Stellenbosch and not just Jonkershoek.

12) @ Oufy MTB we don't want this to become a brand war. Actually it won't because Specialized aren't playing! Specialized branding is going to be taken down.

13) The only event that contributes to trail development is the event we help established "Pennypinchers Origin Of Trails". All other events, despite using the single track pay Cape Pine a fee per head / entrant to gain access. Last year I challenged a trail running event organiser suffice to say they were not interested in contributing. Their argument was that they already pay Cape Pine for access.

 

 

I am not active 'Hubber'. The Hub and it's participants in our opinion represent a large group of riders who truly care about riding and are at the core of the sport. This is obvious when you see the passion within this thread. However, and the reality is that as a result of this thread only three people have stepped forward to contribute. This highlights the challenges we have faced in fundraising to develop the trails and in creating a facility for all riders to enjoy. It's not straight forward.

In summary, ask yourself the following questions:

a) do I ride in Jonkershoek / Stellenbosch and enjoy riding there

b) have I contributed to these magnificent trails

c) am I interested in contributing

d) will I support those who are contributing (the trail building movement) and try to leverage those who are not contributing but are attempting to profit from our hard work / generosity, to contribute

Fellow riders we are simply asking for your support to truly develop these trails into a truly world-class trail facility.

Thanks a million,

Bobby.

[Rouxenator]

...

Last week, we heard that a rider crashed in Coetzenburg and split his tongue in two. While waiting for an ambulance another rider had a bad fall in the exact same place.

...

11) @ Rouxenator our goals are to help develop and maintain trails throughout Stellenbosch and not just Jonkershoek.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

Currently I ride Coetzenburg (from Blauklippen) everyday after work as part of my commute home. There is nothing dangerous about it and the trail as it is currently is perfect. I hope that is not going to get changed or interfered with. Sometimes Giant messes up the place with logs and branded plastic tape but I can tolerate that.

 

I own a year permit for Bottelary Hills and I enjoy riding there on weekends when no other rides are on. While it does upset me that some riders on the trail do not have day passes or annual permits I am sure there are many more who do pay in support of this excellent conservancy.

 

Personally I just don't like the 'vibe' and 'attitude' that goes with Jonkerhoeks - I am sure the trails are magnificent but the riders/people...

[Guest OldFlow]

 

...Personally I just don't like the 'vibe' and 'attitude' that goes with Jonkerhoeks - I am sure the trails are magnificent but the riders/people...

 

Strange that you have that opinion. I am a Tokai local and I have always remarked on the way home from JH how chilled the JH riders are. Apart from the gravity crowd, I find that probably the bulk of riders I come across at Tokai are pretty unfriendly and uptight. At JH though, we often chat to other riders out on the trails and our experience has always been that everyone we come across is smiling and friendly. Even the peeps in that uncomfortable lycra stuff!

[Guest OldFlow]

 

 

4) @ i24. If you go back to my first post. Giniel and I saw eye-to-eye on cutting through the BS and getting the work done. We can try to create a mandate, develop the platform for raising funds etc etc. However and these are the facts. As a result of this 15 page thread only three people have reached out to me directly wishing to contribute. Our small group realise so much can be done, however, our time is limited and therefore we need to work as effectively as possible in order to get the trails maintained and developed.

 

 

About "this 15 page thread"....

 

Pleeeeeease......... When replying to these longer posts, will peeps please edit the quote to the bits relevant to their reply?

 

If you go back through those 15 pages, a good number of pages are just the quoted bits .

[scuzzy]

@Bobby you are a true gentleman and from what I read unbelievably passionate about what you guys are busy with.

 

Thank you for taking the time to give all these answers to us.

 

It is going to be tough, but good luck, I think if you can stay patient, you will bare the fruits on offer. I myself can unfortunately not contribute.

 

Maybe, as an suggestion, one can establish a visible place where donators can get recognition. MTB is being seen as the new golf, sponsoring teams are much more expensive. I do believe that if one can grab the corporates and give them exposure, you can get more money.

 

Maybe you can have something like a website with the sponsors and give updates there or weekly newsletter, or even a Hall of Fame to the contributors at BMT, the specialized shop in S/Bosch or Ride In. Something subtle, or sell clothing that has the sponsors names on. That way they get recognition, of they want, and Jonkers stay nice and clean.

 

As for the fight with Scott, I guess unless Cape Nature/Pine steps in, that will remain a headache.

 

Good luck and thanks again.

[Pappa Bear]

Bobby,

 

Some good advice was given here...... cut through all the issues, posts and future headaches and get a Jonkershoek MTB club going and get everything formalized.

 

It is OK to have 3 guys "informally" building trails that 100 MTBers use. But when you get to sponsors, money and 1000s of trail users the whole movment need to be well organized!

[NicoBoshoff]

Bobby, I'm sure you can use this platform to raise funds. But then just actually come out and say "Guys, we need money. Here's how and where you can donate to help." Post bank details and I'll pay some money and I'm sure many others will too. Nobody here expects something for free (except those jerkface rogue riders on their R50k carbon hardtails that can't afford R25 entrance...).

 

As for the coffee shop, Scott etc. I think that fight needs to be taken off this forum as they're not participating and it's muddying the waters.

[porqui]

Rouxenator - you don't live in Stellenbosch you exist there - you have never ridden Jonkers but you know all about the people who ride there.

 

Get involved with Jonkers its on your doorstep.

[Cassie]

@Pappa bear...before I even read the 16 pages...this was my first opinion as well... A club will have to be established...

 

 

Actually, why the resistance for a club? I ride jonker infrequently - but will definately consider joining the club!

 

quote" 9) @ Hellwarp - you bring up a good point. Why develop faster gravity style trails especially with arguably higher maintenance needs. As a group we want to progress mountain biking. Selfishly we too want to be challenged more and more, while also considering all riders thereby offering varying levels of trails. Another facet we considered is that many kids who are taking up XCO racing are going to compete in Pietermaritzburg for example. Because they are not being exposed to massive drop-offs and rock gardens many are unable to ride the world cup course there. In proposing to create a proper XCO course in Coetzenburg we want to offer kids (and all riders) the opportunities to be tested on all levels of technical difficultly. When compared to other bike parks such as Whistler our trails are pretty tame. Last year many local riders struggled on the XCO Course in Pietermaritzburg."

 

This guys...is why we need Jonkers to be succesful!! We need to get a new young generation skilled & equipped to take over where Burry has taken our sport! I cannot agree more...our young upcomming riders need a Jonkershoek to train on...not a fwe days beofre a WC event inanaother province...but every weekend on their doorstep!

 

PLease , Please guys...consider establishing a club and go through the process of negotiating with the landowners on behalf of a club!

 

Jonkers has the potential of being a world-class facility...if it's not already...

[Cassie]

as an aside...i do know of a very good Graffiti "artist" ...he is just n SMS away!!

 

What would you like to have "tagged" onto the Scott sign???

[marko35s]

Strange that you have that opinion. I am a Tokai local and I have always remarked on the way home from JH how chilled the JH riders are. Apart from the gravity crowd, I find that probably the bulk of riders I come across at Tokai are pretty unfriendly and uptight. At JH though, we often chat to other riders out on the trails and our experience has always been that everyone we come across is smiling and friendly. Even the peeps in that uncomfortable lycra stuff!

Odd that you find that, never had an issue there and have been helped out (with punctures, broken bike issues etc) often and a lot of the guys are very willing to offer advice to beginners. In fact there is a whole bunch that regularly have to temper their speeds (and possibly enjoyment) by dragging me and my youngster along with them.

[GoLefty!!]

Specialised put a lot of money into the fun we have currently at Jonkershoek. Please be mindful of that. Before you start criticising, start to be part of the solution.

Specialised is rightfully displeased that somebody else is ambushing and not contributing. If these parties can prove there commitment, then Bobby will be the first to acknowledge it.

Thanks for the effort over the years. Mtb'ers really appreciate it

 

 

BS

They have no right to be displeased since they don't own the trails, or the coffee shop. Sems like they expect a following because they wrote off some taxes through a donation....