hard work and determination or natural ability

[DJR]

No. you are not - but even when you normalise the data to reflect the lower numbers of 3 and more kids, and the extra firsts, because of single children, second children still take it by far.

In Olympic boxing / wrestling / judo etc, where the participants wear randomly allocated red or blue kit, by far the majority of the winners were in RED. (true bit)

 

Perhaps 2nd children wear more red? And get more gold? See it's all colourist! (rubbish bit)

[Andrew Steer]

I am sure GM probably could finish the Epic, but so far, he hasn't yet - he has entered before, but withdrawn before the start.

He's finished it, twice I am pretty sure...

 

And in the first one he was around the top 100 odd if I recall - I will check

[Guest 1979]

LUCK, don't forget about huge big totally blind LUCK

 

This is true. If you think of Downhill and a kid at 8 years old tries something tricky on his bike for the first time it could go badly wrong and destroy his confidence but if he or she blindly pulls it off they could be filled with confidence and excitement for the sport and they might be already addicted to it by the time they have their first big and inevitable crash. Enough to make sure they get back on the bike when they are all healed up.

 

I also think that location has a lot to do with it. I look at my daughter who is a little under three years old and how much she loves her bike. I sometimes wonder if she will become a good rider one day but in my heart I know that if she was ever to excel at the sport I would probably need to move somewhere like Pietermaritzburg so she could be surrounded by trails that make it easy to pursue and riders and events that encourage her to extend herself.

[Shebeen]

I am sure GM probably could finish the Epic, but so far, he hasn't yet - he has entered before, but withdrawn before the start.

 

bit of google proves you incorrect

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/downhiller-minnaar-completes-second-cape-epic

Pietermaritzburg's Greg Minnaar once again tackled the famous Cape Epic stage race this past week,...

Pietermaritzburg's Greg Minnaar once again tackled the famous Cape Epicstage race this past week, and for the second time in two attempts, he made it to the finish after a gruelling week of racing eight days and 886km.

This year, the downhiller rode with top South African female cross country rider, Hannele Steyn-Kotze in the Mixed Category. Both were part of Addidas team #27.

[Guest 1979]

In Olympic boxing / wrestling / judo etc, where the participants wear randomly allocated red or blue kit, by far the majority of the winners were in RED. (true bit)

 

Perhaps 2nd children wear more red? And get more gold? See it's all colourist! (rubbish bit)

 

Wasn't there some research a while ago that showed that teams that wear red have a higher success rate as the colour has the effect of reducing testosterone in their opponents. It sounds a little far fetched but I remember it as one of those radio soundbites. Maybe the naked scientist or something?

[Guest Omega Man]

I watched an interesting series on American Pro motocross riders called Supercross Behind the dream. Highly recommended to anyone interested in motocross, bikes, competitive sport. And a very similar sport in terms of testicular fortitude to DH.

 

One of the things Jake Weimer said really struck with me. He said pretty much every pro on the start line in an AMA pro main's parents are broke. He said the rich kids don't make it to the pro's cos they aren't tough enough.

[IdeJongh]

Not forgetting "The Roof of Africa" on a enduro bike

 

 

 

Nail on the head, there are lots of variables and depending on the sport type not one single determining factor.

For example the comrades win is quoted in that you have to have the right parents (Fordyce quote), but you can have the best genes in the world without the other variables you wont win it.

 

I'm not convinced about the gene theory as being the most important tbh, look at the African running phenomena, why do these guys dominate mostly in running type events but not in others such as swimming, cycling...surely if genetics was the most important then we would have a few Kenyan / Ethiopian / Nigerian / Ghanaian / Rwandan / Jamican world champion swimmers / cyclists etc by now...?

 

Which one of the variables is most important to win, that's the question.... depends on the type of sport imo

Endurance sports every one says its in the genes, for a sport like DH which requires huge skill and courage i would say genes are less relevant than the long term background (i.e. what you did in your formative years as a kid.... like the Kenyans who ran lots and the white kids who rode lots).

 

Edit: Add Jamicans

 

I think people are forever looking for a 'formula', but it's not that simple, it's a combination of factors. Saying this I'm on the far end of the athletically challenged scale, no natural ability whatsoever, but through determination and applying my mind I've reached a point where I do ok. I won't podium that I know.

 

The ability to adapt is often an overlooked attribute, he who learns or adapts the fastest often wins.

 

As for the DHers, the ability to process information is just as vital, visual to motor info, and the balance between nature vs nurture there depends on the plasticity of the brain.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Amazing that a guy like Greg Minnaar, whose competition only takes him seconds to complete, can successfully finish an Epic!

Hahaha! It's statements like these that let you remember the level of ignorance surrounding top level DH riding and competition. Pottie (Johann Potgieter) is faaaaarking fit and strong. Built lean and mean through intensive training and exercise. And he battles to qualify on the world circuit cos there are guys that train faster and harder than he does, or, rather, can afford to train harder and faster cos they have the financial backing.

 

Take the guys and girls and what they do before the race runs, for example. Regularly doing intervals in their warmup sessions on their IDT and roller setups.

 

DH is not just about skill anymore. You now have to be super fit to be at the top of the leader board. which is why Atherton lost out to Manon Carpenter this time around. She just couldn't put the power down where it mattered, but she smoked Manon everywhere else.

[NickGM]

No. you are not - but even when you normalise the data to reflect the lower numbers of 3 and more kids, and the extra firsts, because of single children, second children still take it by far.

 

So are you saying it's magic?

[GoLefty!!]

talent is genetic

success is a learned behaviour.

[DJR]

................. testicular fortitude ................

 

:D

[V12man]

He's finished it, twice I am pretty sure...

 

And in the first one he was around the top 100 odd if I recall - I will check

 

I did check, but must have missed it - indeed you are correct - 2007 he finished - they only have results from 2006 on for some reason, so he might have another ride earlier than that.

 

Search for: minnaar

 

 

 

 

 

Cat Position

 

 

GC Position

 

 

Team Name

 

No.

 

Rider 1

 

 

 

Nationality

 

 

Category

 

No.

 

Rider 2

 

 

Overall Time

 

Nationality

 

 

 

Category Position:7.

 

 

GC Position:70.

 

 

Team Name:adidas

 

Rider 1:27-2 Hannele Steyn

 

 

 

 

Nationality:http://www.cape-epic.com/flags/blank.gif South Africa

 

 

Category:Mixed

 

 

Rider 2:27-1 Greg Minnaar

 

 

Overall Time:44:22.10,3

 

+5:16.04,2

 

Nationality:http://www.cape-epic.com/flags/blank.gif South Africa

 

My subsequent google search showed he rode with a partner Liaam Killeen - and I can't find that result

 

http://www.supersport.com/cycling/content.aspx?id=9207&cat=104

[igknot]

Determination and mindset is mostly genetic too.

So it is luck all the way.

 

We adore hero's because they had the right genetic mutations to really want to win.

[V12man]

So are you saying it's magic?

 

Not at all - I think there is a big influence of nurture in the mix too - aside from just genetics. 2nd kids have to fight for everything, and get compared to their older siblings all the time (even if it is unconsciously by parents)

 

I suspect that this happens less for 3rd and 4th kids as the experience of parents increases, and they are diluted by the first few kids.

[NickGM]

 

For example the comrades win is quoted in that you have to have the right parents (Fordyce quote), but you can have the best genes in the world without the other variables you wont win it.

 

I'm not convinced about the gene theory as being the most important tbh, look at the African running phenomena, why do these guys dominate mostly in running type events but not in others such as swimming, cycling...surely if genetics was the most important then we would have a few Kenyan / Ethiopian / Nigerian / Ghanaian / Rwandan / Jamican world champion swimmers / cyclists etc by now...?

 

 

I'm pretty sure east african genetic abilities in endurance events would shine through if there were even one tenth of the bikes or pools in those countries than there are in 1st world european countries.

 

It's a great scientific debate (nature vs nurture) but for me, genetics is the biggest factor. Until recently, there had only ever been one person to run a sub-10 sec 100m who WAS NOT of west african ancestry, and that was Frankie Fredricks. Since then there was one other, who also happened to be the first white person to ever do it - Cristophe LeMaitre. And you can't say that whitey doesn't have access to good running facilities and coaching. If anything, the average caucasian has much better socio-economic advantages in this regard. It's just DNA.

[DJR]

Not at all - I think there is a big influence of nurture in the mix too - aside from just genetics. 2nd kids have to fight for everything, and get compared to their older siblings all the time (even if it is unconsciously by parents)

 

I suspect that this happens less for 3rd and 4th kids as the experience of parents increases, and they are diluted by the first few kids.

 

You a 2nd child by any chance?