Can skill make up for short travel and geometry??

[Bomberman]

Cool post... Think you might be on to something....

 

I am getting there though:

2.4" Tyres - check

Dropper - check

Big rotors - meh, mine stop me for now

140+mm - work in progress, see above..

 

In my case

 

Tyres - check

Big 180mm rotors - check

140mm - -check

Dropper post -   I want one so bad.....

[Raydek]

Yoh, they make a world of difference!!!

[Bomberman]

I have not had the privilege use one, planning to buy one next year. For now its ass behind seat and repeat. 

[Wyatt Earp]

My Ritchey can do it all, the perfect all in one solution .

[Amberdrake]

I have a SC Tallboy 

120mm up front

dropper 

180 rotor's 

2.25 tyres

 

The rear travel is fine for my riding atm but i would like little more upfront for the times when skill is lacking. 

 

That said I am still very unskilled and each ride I push just a bit harder.

Unfortunately every time I see a Rough trail the image of a new shiny Pike flashes past.

 

That said TB feels more than capable on everything i throw at it. Be it hang on for dear life down trail or crawl pace ( it hates this and tends to OTB me).

[Barry Stuart]

do a youtube search on downhill racing on days when suspension just arrived, and i think you'll find that there was some fast guys on weird bikes. just enjoy whatever and above all, wear a smile

What passed for downhill in the early ninetes would just about make the grade on a decent enduro course these days.

[Vega]

Shouldn't the question rather be: "Can long-travel suspension make up for lack of skill?" There is certainly a place and application for long-travel bikes, but it seems to me that skills should be the priority irrespective of the type of bike you ride.

[Lone_Ranger]

Great topic. My two cents, I've been riding hardtail 100mm XC bikes for the past 5 years. One very twitchy, one quite relaxed, both 26".

 

I've ridden almost everything at Tokai, with the exception of the big jumps on the DH lines. Definitely improved my skill level, as the wrong line on these bikes results in almost certain face plant.

 

However I've recently purchased a 130mm dual suss here on the Hub, as I find the concentration required to ride the more technical stuff is a bit too intense. Had a serious over the bar incident up at Cobra at Tokai about a month back, mainly due to tiredness after a longish ride resulting in loss of concentration for a split second.

 

Bottom line, skill up on XC type, but upgrade after a few years. Sticking to the XC beyond a few years is just punishment.

[Raydek]

Bottom line, skill up on XC type, but upgrade after a few years. Sticking to the XC beyond a few years is just punishment.

 

 

[Bomberman]

I think a good question to ask is, how dos a person ride?

 

Dos he (A) choose a line and hope his travel will make it easier to navigate

 

or

 

(B) choose a difficult line and use the travel to his advantage to go over more technical              sections.

 

I went with B, I sold my xc bike and got more of a all mountain bike with more travel and a smaller frame. I have committed myself to learning skills that will help me have more fun on the tech areas. I try to pop  wheelys on and of things, bunny over things instead of going around them, and when its comes to the down hills.... there is only one way.

 

Hope this makes sense? 

[Bos]

What passed for downhill in the early ninetes would just about make the grade on a decent enduro course these days.

Early 90's were 52mm forks on hardtails. Bas de Bever won the Stellenbosh Worldcup DH in 1997 on 4' Beone FS bike.

[Beast Tech]

My 2 cents...

 

Student started riding could only afford a good old hardtail (GT avalanche). Got 140mm travel on the thing. I love going fast, jumping, and technical stuff. Rode more and more and skills got better and better. Some upgrades (wheels, bars, drivetrain, stem) but that's all.

 

I am finally upgrading to a Nomad so quite a jump as I am no longer a broke student. But skills are king, and a HT just forces you to learn, that's what my belief is. 

 

By the way I also can dirt jump it (Scout hall line). 

[Headshot]

Not a clue, thats a whole other if/when topic for another day.

 

From other chats on here though it seems Giant has good value for money trail bikes..

 

But if money wasn't a problem then seems like Morewood, Pyga and the likes are the way to go...

 

 

One way of upping your short travel bikes performance on steeper terrain is to put on a really short stem - 50mm or less and add wider bars - eg 750mm with a bit of a rise. 

 

Steep trails at speed become far more manageable if your riding position is further back and less stretched out. My bars are just behind my front axle.

 

Next is suspension tuning. If your 100mm fork is set up too soft it will dive on the steeps and steepen your already steep head angle. Add some air to make the spring firmer so the fork rides higher in its travel. If you lose maximum travel, don't worry too much. You can also use the compression damping to firm the fork up and keep it up. A more expensive option is to upgrade to a longer fork eg a 120 - 130mm travel.

 

As far as the rear sus is concerned, you almost want it the opposite to the front i.e softer and riding lower. This will slacken the head angle sightly and encourage a more off the back riding style, which you need on the steeps. You don't want your suspension bottoming out of course and thats where some air spring adjustment comes in. By adding a volume reducer you can make teh rear spring more progressive ie ramping up at the end of its travel. This will allow lower pressures and a softer ride but still not bottom out if done right.

 

Stefan Garlicki who races WC DH, is incredibly fast on a Morewood Zula with a 140mm fork - He tackles DH courses on that bike at enduro races. In fact he's selling it I think as he's just received a trail bike from his bike sponsor.

[EmptyB]

Great topic. My two cents, I've been riding hardtail 100mm XC bikes for the past 5 years. One very twitchy, one quite relaxed, both 26".

 

I've ridden almost everything at Tokai, with the exception of the big jumps on the DH lines. Definitely improved my skill level, as the wrong line on these bikes results in almost certain face plant.

 

However I've recently purchased a 130mm dual suss here on the Hub, as I find the concentration required to ride the more technical stuff is a bit too intense. Had a serious over the bar incident up at Cobra at Tokai about a month back, mainly due to tiredness after a longish ride resulting in loss of concentration for a split second.

 

Bottom line, skill up on XC type, but upgrade after a few years. Sticking to the XC beyond a few years is just punishment.

 

Ditto....

[Bos]

Something you should ask..Where are you riding? Rocky area? or Somewhere like Knysna? If you ride heavy Dh tracks and Tokai all day long then you should probably get bigger bike..

 

I rode out in the Tygerberg area 4 weeks ago, and the trails are so groomed/dummed down Id call it a complete waste to ride anything more than 5'' on any of the trails we rode at Merendal, Hillcrest or Contermans, even Majik forest..(not talking about the HD track at contermans)

 

There were no natural obsticles left to jump or push off, after the 50th switchback at merendal I was bored out my mind!! the only thing I enjoyed was the little flowing bit by the stream at the end.

 

Trailbuilders PLEEEESE leave some gnarl or take the trails over some steeper stuff even for us with 95mm travel..

[Raydek]

One way of upping your short travel bikes performance on steeper terrain is to put on a really short stem - 50mm or less and add wider bars - eg 750mm with a bit of a rise. 

 

Steep trails at speed become far more manageable if your riding position is further back and less stretched out. My bars are just behind my front axle.

 

Next is suspension tuning. If your 100mm fork is set up too soft it will dive on the steeps and steepen your already steep head angle. Add some air to make the spring firmer so the fork rides higher in its travel. If you lose maximum travel, don't worry too much. You can also use the compression damping to firm the fork up and keep it up. A more expensive option is to upgrade to a longer fork eg a 120 - 130mm travel.

 

As far as the rear sus is concerned, you almost want it the opposite to the front i.e softer and riding lower. This will slacken the head angle sightly and encourage a more off the back riding style, which you need on the steeps. You don't want your suspension bottoming out of course and thats where some air spring adjustment comes in. By adding a volume reducer you can make teh rear spring more progressive ie ramping up at the end of its travel. This will allow lower pressures and a softer ride but still not bottom out if done right.

 

Stefan Garlicki who races WC DH, is incredibly fast on a Morewood Zula with a 140mm fork - He tackles DH courses on that bike at enduro races. In fact he's selling it I think as he's just received a trail bike from his bike sponsor.

 

 

I'm going to need to read this a few times!! 

 

But thanks, mostly makes sense..