Ryinc Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I’m currently 31 years old, and a year or two back I was very much a social cyclist, typically riding out of C group. Since then I have started to train a bit harder and regularly and have made reasonable and steady improvements into open B and then A bunches at races. Late last year I decided to get a racing license and have started to be seeded and race with the sub-vets groups (“VA”) – 2 races so far. I have found it quite an interesting experience particularly changing from a “ride” in the open group (no real attacks or tactics) to speak of to an actual race in the vets bunch. I realise from past experience in moving up bunches that it takes time to adapt. My goal in the short term is to get to 90-95% of the race distance with the main vets group and hope to improve further from there once I am achieving this regularly. I managed this for one of the races I competed in where I was dropped in last 5km but not in the other where I was dropped just past the halfway point. What I seem to be picking up is that achieving my goal seems to be at least about as much about “racing smart” as it does about simply having the raw ability and fitness to ride in this group and so I am really keen to learn from those that are willing to give me some advice and the tips and the tricks. So far the conclusions that I can make - I am generally comfortable with the pace of the group- However, there seem to be 4 or 5 critical moments within the ride where there is a rapid change in pace within the group and if I do not anticipate correctly, I can easily get caught out and dropped. If I am lucky when I get caught out and dropped for a moment the groups pace slows and am able to ride back on and then comfortable again for the next few km. This leads me to think that it is just about being able to vasbyt that extra 5% that is the difference between being dropped vs not.- The moments I seem to be struggling with seem to be more on slight downhills and/or windy sections when the pace is picked up and peloton gets strung out – what this seems to tell me is that I am missing a trick in how to position myself in the group in such situations and/or my absolute power is a bit on the low side (given that I feel more comfortable within the group when the road is slightly uphill seems to suggest to me watts per kilogram is perhaps ok). So my questions:- For the hubbers that are seasoned racing vets (or racing elites) or the hubbers that have made a similar transition to what I am trying to make – what tips and advice do you have? What are the key mistakes to avoid? What have been your experiences?- Could anybody give me some insight by looking into their own power files what average power, normalised power (in absolute watts and watts per kilogram) that you believe would be necessary to sustain to be able to comfortably stay with the VA group? This would give me a something to work towards in training.- Here are some power numbers that I took out from three most recent races (note these are numbers from the races, they are not reflective of maximum efforts to exhaustion which would obviously be higher): 94.7 16 November 2014 – C Group, (managed to stay with front of group to last 5km) The Fast One, 25 Jan 2015, (VA managed to stay with group to last 5km) Ride for Sight, 15 February 2015 (VA dropped just past halfway) Average Power 177w (2.46w/kg) 177w (2.53w/kg) 178w (2.54w/kg) Normalised Power 236w (3.28w/kg) 227w (3.24w/kg) 212w (3.03w/kg) 30 second peak avg power 429w (5.96w/kg) 468w (6.69w/kg) 474w (6.77w/kg) 1 minute peak avg power 387w (5.38w/kg) 388w (5.54w/kg) 370w (5.29w/kg) 3 minute peak avg power 325w (4.51w/kg) 284w (4.06w/kg) 280w (4.00w/kg) 20 minute peak avg power 222w (3.08w/kg) 207w (2.96w/kg) 220w (3.14w/kg)
FlyingScot Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Wow...this is exactly how I feel. I have also just made the jump to VA after about 8 months of cycling and it has been an eye-opening experience. For me personally, I have no issues sticking on the flats, downhills and slight uphills. It is when the gradient really spikes that I just cannot hold on. Something I have noticed...is that just before a climb there is a descent/flat...it is on the decent/flat that I find VA applies the breaks, stopping momentum and putting the ball in the mountain goats court. I am generally too far back or not mentally prepared to attack the climb and get dropped. Looking at your numbers - they do seem slightly low - I currently weigh in at 78kg race weight, whereas you come in at 72kg. My average power is just over 3w/kg - that said there is still more training that I need to do and I have let things slip since the 947. Normalised power would be higher. Things I plan to work on or implement: * Being closer to the front as opposed to the back of the group...* Proper supplementation both before and during the race - I have struggled with cramps in the past 2 races (Berge en Dale and R4S). I now take Magnesium supplements during the week, have a banana protein/carb shake before the race and make sure I drink enough during the race.* Spending more time in the saddle - currently I do not train enough...sometimes as little as 3 hours a week! * Saving up and getting an IDT - have my eye set on a KickR.* Removing Heart Rate from my Garmin dash - I sometimes find if I look down and I am at my max heart rate, I do not push harder even though there is more in the tank. Out of interest my max heart rate is slowly increasing, which is great to see! My minimum is currently at 40bpm, with a max of 176bpm.* Supplementing at the right time - I have noticed that the group generally supplements together (gu's, drinks etc.) and I try to be observant and supplement at the same time. I think this more comes down to experience for that race as they know where the big climbs are and when to supplement. Also the last thing you want is to be opening your gu and there is an attack...* And lastly, I am working towards a 74kg race weight with a body fat percentage of 8%...
shaper Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Consider getting a coach not only for the training, they often will be able to give you a pre breifing of races and where likely attacks will occur
FlyingScot Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Interval training. Although I do see benefit in interval training I believe the lack of longer rides at moderate pace has lead to me having more cramps in races where I push hard. This is just a personal observation...
FlyingScot Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Consider getting a coach not only for the training, they often will be able to give you a pre breifing of races and where likely attacks will occur Any recommendations of such a coach in Johannesburg? I am assuming this can be done online/over the phone so no need to see them in person every week?
Spinnekop Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 VA bunch Ride for sight - Finish with front guys292NP (3.7w/kg)30sec - 562 - 7.11min - 501 - 6.310min 374 - 4.7 It was a tough race with the wind.......And Mr. Richard Baxter with his pro legs made is a bit harder up front than usual. VB Bunch 94.7NP 336 - 4.3830s - 631 - 8.231min -541 - 7.0610min - 390 - 5 Crazy numbers at the 94.7 but we broke away from the gun and with only 5 guys in the break each one of us had to work very hard. On the racing note.Route knowledge helps a LOT!You have to know where it is going to get hard and where is what going to happen.R4S was a clear example of that. If you sit in front of the bunch (top 15) then you won't be caught out if and when the pace goes hard.....and someone popping in the gutter is less of an issue...... Good luck and welcome to the VA bunch!
'Dale Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 AVOIDChasing down every attack and burn those matches.Starting with cold legs.Overtraining, allow ample rest days. DEFINITELYWarm upTrain cresting a climb with sheer follow-through until 50 metres after itShare focus between endurance and high-intensity training
V12man Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Any recommendations of such a coach in Johannesburg? I am assuming this can be done online/over the phone so no need to see them in person every week? Di White - and you might get the benefit of chatting to Nic about what happens and how to respond in a racing bunch
Spinnekop Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Interval training.2min at flat box.Also google Tmax intervals. Then have a look at Tabata intervals. All good for time crunched wannabe funriders.
jcza Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Report to Engen in Bryanston at 4:55 on Tuesdays and Thursdays and stay with the Complete Cyclist guys.
SwissVan Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 As well as ability and correct training your tactic skills need to be sharp. Don't follow / chase the wrong guys and end up killing your legs before the winning break.
shaper Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Any recommendations of such a coach in Johannesburg? I am assuming this can be done online/over the phone so no need to see them in person every week? https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/144324-cycling-specific-coach/?hl=coach
AuctionLamb Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Scary part is you have these guys in a racing bunch! Thought a VA racer should/will have the ability to have the basic experience of racing. Not a personal attack to the poster but these basic things you learn from normal fun ride "racing"
'Dale Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 I’m currently 31 years old, and a year or two back I was very much a social cyclist, typically riding out of C...SNIP - Here are some power numbers that I took out from three most recent races (note these are numbers from the races, they are not reflective of maximum efforts to exhaustion which would obviously be higher): 94.7 16 November 2014 – C Group, (managed to stay with front of group to last 5km)The Fast One, 25 Jan 2015, (VA managed to stay with group to last 5km)Ride for Sight, 15 February 2015 (VA dropped just past halfway)Average Power177w (2.46w/kg)177w (2.53w/kg)178w (2.54w/kg)Normalised Power236w (3.28w/kg)227w (3.24w/kg)212w (3.03w/kg)30 second peak avg power429w (5.96w/kg)468w (6.69w/kg)474w (6.77w/kg)1 minute peak avg power387w (5.38w/kg)388w (5.54w/kg)370w (5.29w/kg)3 minute peak avg power325w (4.51w/kg)284w (4.06w/kg)280w (4.00w/kg)20 minute peak avg power222w (3.08w/kg)207w (2.96w/kg)220w (3.14w/kg) So so cool to see you utilising your power numbers. About you FTP (improving this is a long-term challenge), there's ample room for improvement.See the "Raising The Floor" Tip here included in the article below http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/toolbox/toolbox-faster-race-finishes/
Escapee.. Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Scary part is you have these guys in a racing bunch! Thought a VA racer should/will have the ability to have the basic experience of racing. Not a personal attack to the poster but these basic things you learn from normal fun ride "racing"
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