Epicbikeshop Cape Town . .VAT refund missing!

[JGR]

There comes a point in time when things must end. Where this thread is concerned, that point was reached about 3 pages back.

 

The OP has done his whining, the accused has stated his side, and despite the fact that what he did was dumb (the VAT number part), his version seems plausible.

 

Enough already. The OP clearly has no intention of contributing anything meaningful to this thread, all he is doing is continually adding fuel to the fire in the hope of keeping it alive.

 

Yeah and Lance never doped. Im sorry using a Vat number from another persons business and then writing down the last digit incorrectly because you were busy? Sending it to the airport knowing he wouldn't get his claim with it? Cmon man. His emails quite clearly state he advised the OP he would get his tax back. If he was not in a position to offer financial/tax advice he shouldn't have done so, as a business if you make a mistake you correct it not pass it onto the consumer? The vat back was crucial to the OP decisions to buy the bike from EBS 

 

It is worth saying I have used EBS before and their service was ok. So I have no personal issue with them 

[HDW]

Yeah and Lance never doped. Im sorry using a Vat number from another persons business and then writing down the last digit incorrectly because you were busy? Sending it to the airport knowing he wouldn't get his claim with it? Cmon man. His emails quite clearly state he advised the OP he would get his tax back. If he was not in a position to offer financial/tax advice he shouldn't have done so, as a business if you make a mistake you correct it not pass it onto the consumer? The vat back was crucial to the OP decisions to buy the bike from EBS 

 

It is worth saying I have used EBS before and their service was ok. So I have no personal issue with them 

Agree. I didn't even know they bike shop existed (and hopefully Specialized also doesn't know  ), but it is very clear what happened here. Playing the victim, and then getting your panties in a knot won't change the fact already provided in this thread.

 

Nothing to be done here though by the OP. He won't get his money back, so I propose he writes it off as school fees.

 

For the rest of us, at least we got a new perspective on some matters...

[jcza]

Customer in getting shafted by bike shop shocker. Nothing new. 

[GLuvsMtb]

Actually it does have bearing on the matter.

Taxation laws are not designed to penalise you twice. You pay the tax that your country of origin requires you to pay. If Amerigo declared his bike he would have been charged the difference between SA VAT and Italian VAT.

 

Often I buy things in Singapore and don't bother to claim the 9% VAT back at the airport. When i get back to SA I go through "Something to declare" and they charge me the difference, and they recover the remainder from Singapore tax authority.

 

When I take my bike out of the country I have to declare it at departure as part of my luggage and that  have owned it and not purchased within the last ( ithink its 6months or they want an invoice showing the items and value with serial number,make and model). Its marked tax exempt as its luggage. If I ditch it at my country of destination and when I return its not the same item they have on record its considered an import and I would be liabel for duty and VAT unless I can prove I paid VAT in Excess of SA VAT. SARS then recovers the 145 VAT from the other country taxation authority.

 

there is a very coordinated global effort to ensure goods movement is tightly controlled and that everyone benefits from the duties.

asking the OP to present his tax clearance documents is like asking Epic Bike Shop to present their VAT 201's with supporting docs. For me the big red flag is the seemingly incorrect VAT number instead of a mere "VAT Registration Pending" on the invoice. They should have also stated upfront that due to their registration being in process, the chances of a VAT refund would be zero and have referred the OP to another shop who could assist with the bike and a valid VAT invoice. Sometimes you have to walk away from a deal.

[raptor-22]

asking the OP to present his tax clearance documents is like asking Epic Bike Shop to present their VAT 201's with supporting docs. For me the big red flag is the seemingly incorrect VAT number instead of a mere "VAT Registration Pending" on the invoice. They should have also stated upfront that due to their registration being in process, the chances of a VAT refund would be zero and have referred the OP to another shop who could assist with the bike and a valid VAT invoice. Sometimes you have to walk away from a deal.

 

 

 

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

[cycologiist]

This thread is boring. Surely there is a forum for all the genius tax and vat consultants that seem to be on here. The buyer said his bit, the LBS has said his, clearly there is no more to say and guess what, this isn't the platform for bloody VAT consulting!

 

I am sure they'll sort it out, its not like its a stolen bike or someone has died. Planks, rope, ladder = bridge to be built... NOW GET OVER IT   

 

Think its time we got back to bikes and how rad they are.

 

#OutsideIsFree Aweness!

[Edge_Design]

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

 

Not to be funny, but I thought you bought things in Singapore and paid the difference in SA (somewhere around page 10)? Now it's the UK and Germany and you don't pay a cent. Please also clarify which law you were referring to earlier about VAT - you made a statement about it being the law to add VAT in this case but didn't specify which law as I wasn't aware of that in the case of a non vendor.

 

I have nothing personal against you as I have no idea who you are, but I battle with comments like that unless they are backed up by facts (and I'm sure you can see the inconsistency/confusion from those 2 comments of yours - there's probably a very logical explanation).

[Skylark]

^^ Looks like Zilla has found himself another account, Aweness!

 

the big elephant in this lynching is "time"

not the bicycle brand, but the theoretical quantity influenced by gravity.

 

maybe try to piece the events together into a time frame to understand where the learnings are.

 

to me both parties are at fault.

 

BTW I've bought several goods and a couple bikes abroad while travelling. Never asked for a VAT refund from the bike shops on the other side, and declared the bikes upon arrival in Cape Town as my own goods form y own use an presented the invoices and was not ever charged a cent of VAT because as the customs official explained " you only pay the VAT once but we would prefer you pay it to us so remember next time to claim it back on hat side and then pay 14% in SA because it lower than the (then (17%) in the UK {18% in Germany}"

 

Since SA is a signatory to the WTO taxation treaty or whatever the thing is called I would assume it works the same across all countries who are signatory to the taxation scheme.

 

So still don't figure what the big fracas is about unless someone is trying to pull a fast one

 

Well here's someone that's honest enough to owning up to what definitely looks like customs fraud and with a complicit customs official nogal. No customs cares what vat you paid wherever, you pay vat when you land in your country of origin full stop, unless you are raptor-22 and fiddle the books. Ok thats a bit of tongue and cheek for all the self righteous posts on this thread

[raptor-22]

Not to be funny, but I thought you bought things in Singapore and paid the difference in SA (somewhere around page 10)? Now it's the UK and Germany and you don't pay a cent. Please also clarify which law you were referring to earlier about VAT - you made a statement about it being the law to add VAT in this case but didn't specify which law as I wasn't aware of that in the case of a non vendor.

 

I have nothing personal against you as I have no idea who you are, but I battle with comments like that unless they are backed up by facts (and I'm sure you can see the inconsistency/confusion from those 2 comments of yours - there's probably a very logical explanation).

 

 

 

Oh ya lekker a fight.

 

yes I guess I articulated the "law bit incorrectly" Since the non VAT registered vendor will add the 14% onto the price of goods to recover the input VA they were charged by their supplier. So no gov gazette.

 

My experiences when travelling to the east is that customs and excise charged me the difference between Sing 9.75% VAT and SA 14% VAT. on a different occasion they didn;t bother charging me anything since goods value was below R5000.

 

When travelling to the UK and Germany, these were longer stays for more than a month or couple of months so instances broadly similar to cpt Amerigo.

 

 

now what was the point you were trying to illustrate?

 

 

 

added at 15h43 <started typing at 15h43.13sec>

the point of the matter Is he key point that as a tourist you seldom eligible to get the VAT back and you need to to do your homework on what's required. When I bought the bikes and other cycling goods abroad none of the shops knew anything about I would need to go about claiming the VAT back. So to me EBS situation is not uncommon or unique. Generally store that are experienced in these matters are in tourist quarters in malls etc and not little bike shops tucked away above a broader family business complex.

[JGR]

This thread is boring. Surely there is a forum for all the genius tax and vat consultants that seem to be on here. The buyer said his bit, the LBS has said his, clearly there is no more to say and guess what, this isn't the platform for bloody VAT consulting!

 

I am sure they'll sort it out, its not like its a stolen bike or someone has died. Planks, rope, ladder = bridge to be built... NOW GET OVER IT   

 

Think its time we got back to bikes and how rad they are.

 

#OutsideIsFree Aweness!

 

It is beyond obvious you are a friend of the shop/zilla ...... One doesn't need to be a Vat consultant to get to the crux of the issue. 

 

EBS should not have told the OP he would get tax back if they did not know this as a fact. 

 

On presentation to SARS at airport he was informed it was not the correct documentation 

 

Documentation send from EBS to SARS was falsified (knowingly) 

 

EBS threatens OP privately and on an open forum 

 

How EBS file taxes, their turnover, Zilla reputation (previously), OP paying Vat, his country of origin, size and colour of the bike matter not. 

 

It is strange how in other threads people are quick to praise people for brining this type of things to light and yet here some people are defending it ....

 

ps if you find this boring I suggest you spend your time/energy elsewhere. I always find it fascinating the type of people who take the time to comment on how lame, boring, waste of time and stupid things are? There must be a word for that ...

[JGR]

Im sure this thread will be studied at university "Social Media Marketing 101: How not to do it" 

[dirtypot]

I see lots of edited posts and posts going missing.

Lolsies at the noobs 

[Shebeen]

I think people are jumping to defend the Epike bike shop because it has a good name.

I know that was bought from the previous owners, but that's what 'goodwill' is. Run a good business and the reputation will last longer than the owners.

 

And it goes without saying, that a reputation doesn't last forever - you need to keep working at it. Many lessons to be learnt here.

[HeyYou]

A bit of sleuthing, reading carefully through some of the emails, allegedly sent(!), and looking at dates, something does not tally.

 

The EBS Tax Invoice posted by Americo is dated 17th February, but it shows as a TAX invoice and lists a VAT Number. 

 

Unless Americo has 'doctored' the Invoice, it looks like it was issued at purchase.

Was it?

 

Americo left SA in April, was another issued in haste when Americo left SA, as Zilla says?

 

????????????

 

Of course, I may be completely off square!

 

 

 

 

[ahp005]

A bit of sleuthing, reading carefully through some of the emails, allegedly sent(!), and looking at dates, something does not tally.

 

The EBS Tax Invoice posted by Americo is dated 17th February, but it shows as a TAX invoice and lists a VAT Number. 

 

Unless Americo has 'doctored' the Invoice, it looks like it was issued at purchase.

Was it?

 

Americo left SA in April, was another issued in haste when Americo left SA, as Zilla says?

 

????????????

 

Of course, I may be completely off square!

Maybe you must read the whole thread then you're questions will be answered.

[HeyYou]

Maybe you must read the whole thread then you're questions will be answered.

 

I have!!!!

 

If you'd read it all you'd see I made an earlier comment.

 

Gotcha...