Wheel building

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

37 minutes ago, EddieV said:

Hi Nick, these are awesome.
Do you have a local supplier for your spokes? or do you have to import all your spokes. I used to get from a company in Somerset West but they have closed down?

I'll be sh!t scared of pulling a nipple through a carbon rim that doesn't belong to me .... what is the max tension you do on the spokes when you do carbon rims?

I get most of my spokes locally from the Pillar and DT Swiss importers.

Carbon rims are no different to build compared to alloy.
I'd even say they're probably less prone to damage during building than alloy.

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

Public service announcement

(A rant based on some wheels that came in to the workshop yesterday)

If you bought some MTB wheels from a big brand name shop which use Hope hubs and Stan's new Arch, Crest or Flow Mk4 rims, make sure they built the wheels with the offset rims the right way around.

The wheels that came in yesterday had the rear rim on the wrong way around.

The "long" side of the rim needs to be on the cassette side. If not, you're not getting the benefit of the offset spoke bed, designed to achieve more even spoke tensions between drive and non-drive side.

Also, have a look inside the rim through the spoke holes. The spokes should NOT stick up through the tops of the nipples. (something else I noticed on these wheels - spokes used were at least 2mm too long)

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

Wheels built with the same hubs and rims, are NOT always equivalent.

Ok, rant off.

[TheoG]

2 minutes ago, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

Public service announcement

(A rant based on some wheels that came in to the workshop yesterday)

If you bought some MTB wheels from a big brand name shop which use Hope hubs and Stan's new Arch, Crest or Flow Mk4 rims, make sure they built the wheels with the offset rims the right way around.

The wheels that came in yesterday had the rear rim on the wrong way around.

The "long" side of the rim needs to be on the cassette side. If not, you're not getting the benefit of the offset spoke bed, designed to achieve more even spoke tensions between drive and non-drive side.

Also, have a look inside the rim through the spoke holes. The spokes should NOT stick up through the tops of the nipples. (something else I noticed on these wheels - spokes used were at least 2mm too long)

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

Wheels built with the same hubs and rims, are NOT always equivalent.

Ok, rant off.

Clearly there are wheel builders AND "wheel builders" .... 🤪😁

[droo]

12 minutes ago, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

Public service announcement

(A rant based on some wheels that came in to the workshop yesterday)

If you bought some MTB wheels from a big brand name shop which use Hope hubs and Stan's new Arch, Crest or Flow Mk4 rims, make sure they built the wheels with the offset rims the right way around.

The wheels that came in yesterday had the rear rim on the wrong way around.

The "long" side of the rim needs to be on the cassette side. If not, you're not getting the benefit of the offset spoke bed, designed to achieve more even spoke tensions between drive and non-drive side.

Also, have a look inside the rim through the spoke holes. The spokes should NOT stick up through the tops of the nipples. (something else I noticed on these wheels - spokes used were at least 2mm too long)

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

Wheels built with the same hubs and rims, are NOT always equivalent.

Ok, rant off.

Assuming it's the same place that sold the Hope / MK3 wheelsets built with straight gauge spokes that all pulled through the rims.

You 100% get what you pay for.

[splat]

Chain Weaction Cycles ?

[DieselnDust]

22 hours ago, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

Public service announcement

(A rant based on some wheels that came in to the workshop yesterday)

If you bought some MTB wheels from a big brand name shop which use Hope hubs and Stan's new Arch, Crest or Flow Mk4 rims, make sure they built the wheels with the offset rims the right way around.

The wheels that came in yesterday had the rear rim on the wrong way around.

The "long" side of the rim needs to be on the cassette side. If not, you're not getting the benefit of the offset spoke bed, designed to achieve more even spoke tensions between drive and non-drive side.

Also, have a look inside the rim through the spoke holes. The spokes should NOT stick up through the tops of the nipples. (something else I noticed on these wheels - spokes used were at least 2mm too long)

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

Wheels built with the same hubs and rims, are NOT always equivalent.

Ok, rant off.

Amen brother Nick, may the Spoke be with you

[ians H2Sport]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:36 PM, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

I've been asked to build some stunner wheel sets lately, so I thought I'd share some photos with you all.

Various carbon rims (South Industries, Nextie, Stans) on DT Swiss 240S & 350 hubs, with bladed spokes and brass nipples.
All came in between 1290 and 1390g per set.

What a lucky bugger I am that other people trust me to build their awesome wheels

So I went for the Nextie rims on DT240's. Sadly not for my bike, the lightie gets the nod this time. Cant wait for them to arrive!! 

 

[Wyatt Earp]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:39 AM, TheoG said:

Clearly there are wheel builders AND "wheel builders" .... 🤪😁

Correct, and then you get wheelbuilders that fix other wheelbuilders mistakes.

[ChrisF]

4 hours ago, Wyatt Earp said:

Correct, and then you get wheelbuilders that fix other wheelbuilders mistakes.

 

Only when the mistakes are picked up in time ....🙈

 

A friend has the hoops noted as good quality earlier in this thread .... heard "pinging" while riding behind him.  Checked the spokes mid ride ... nothing obviously wrong or loose ...

 

Next ride, some more pinging .... then he spots cracks in the hoops at at least 6 spokes 😬

 

[Wyatt Earp]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

Only when the mistakes are picked up in time ....🙈

 

A friend has the hoops noted as good quality earlier in this thread .... heard "pinging" while riding behind him.  Checked the spokes mid ride ... nothing obviously wrong or loose ...

 

Next ride, some more pinging .... then he spots cracks in the hoops at at least 6 spokes 😬

 

Most bad wheel builds only manifest themselves after a long period like a year of regular riding.

Many can lace and build a good looking wheel.

Building a lasting wheel is a whole different animal.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Wyatt Earp

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

On 12/13/2022 at 1:07 PM, splat said:

Chain Weaction Cycles ?

Nope. A local outfit.

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:33 PM, ChrisF said:

 

Only when the mistakes are picked up in time ....🙈

 

A friend has the hoops noted as good quality earlier in this thread .... heard "pinging" while riding behind him.  Checked the spokes mid ride ... nothing obviously wrong or loose ...

 

Next ride, some more pinging .... then he spots cracks in the hoops at at least 6 spokes 😬

 

All Stans Mk3 rims have either cracked at the spoke holes, or will crack at the spoke holes - this is a design, engineering and / or materials issue.

If you over-tension the spokes you should get bulging at the spoke holes, not cracking.

Specifically the Stan's Mk4 rims have specifically addressed this issue and to my knowledge not a single Mk4 rim has cracked at the spoke holes since their launch over a year ago.

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:22 PM, Wyatt Earp said:

Most bad wheel builds only manifest themselves after a long period like a year of regular riding.

Many can lace and build a good looking wheel.

Building a lasting wheel is a whole different animal.

Indeed that's one of my guiding principles:

You shouldn't have to babysit your wheels. They should be fit for purpose and last years before needing any attention or repairs (spoke tensions, rim truing)

Look after your hubs with fresh bearings every few thousand km and they'll look after you.

[DieselnDust]

42 minutes ago, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

Indeed that's one of my guiding principles:

You shouldn't have to babysit your wheels. They should be fit for purpose and last years before needing any attention or repairs (spoke tensions, rim truing)

Look after your hubs with fresh bearings every few thousand km and they'll look after you.

Every few thousand Km? Noooiit . Bearing should be lasting 10’s of 1000’s of Km’s ! We accept mediocrity too easily. There are too many hubs out there costing way too much for the poor accuracy of their bearing seats.. I will always opt for a hand built wheel before buying boutique but the hub selection is core to a good wheel. Too weak flanges and hun shells can’t handle enough tension and this distorts bearing seats especially under load. 
weak axles cause the bearings inner race to distort leading to premature wear. 
 

mat the heart of every great wheel is a good strong hub , a wheel builder who knows how to get the best out of the build and a no compromise no bull crap attitude. 
 

there is a huge difference between hand laced and hand built.  Hand built all the way for me.

Edited December 16, 2022 by DieselnDust

[nick_the_wheelbuilder]

2 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Very few thousand Km? Noooiit . Bearing should be lasting 10’s of 1000’s of Km’s ! We accept mediocrity too easily. There are too many hubs out there costing way too much for the poor accuracy of their bearing seats.. I will always opt for a hand built wheel before buying boutique but the hub selection is core to a good wheel. Too weak flanges and hun shells can’t handle enough tension and this distorts bearing seats especially under load. 
weak axles cause the bearings inner race to distort leading to premature wear. 
 

mat the heart of every great wheel is a good strong hub , a wheel builder who knows how to get the best out of the build and a no compromise no bull crap attitude. 
 

there is a huge difference between hand laced and hand built.  Hand built all the way for me.

I couldn't agree more.

In my personal experience I've swapped MTB hub bearings when they've become sloppy or rough at between 5 000 and 10 000 km mileage. (Hope hubs)

On good road hubs you can probably get away with many more miles than that!

Cup-and-cone bearings need maintenance more often to keep them smooth and prevent damaging the inner race which is part of the hub shell.

[DieselnDust]

25 minutes ago, nick_the_wheelbuilder said:

I couldn't agree more.

In my personal experience I've swapped MTB hub bearings when they've become sloppy or rough at between 5 000 and 10 000 km mileage. (Hope hubs)

On good road hubs you can probably get away with many more miles than that!

Cup-and-cone bearings need maintenance more often to keep them smooth and prevent damaging the inner race which is part of the hub shell.

The older Shimano M-965/975 disc brake Mtb hubs used replaceable cups. These hubs were great. I still have one 965 running rings around newer hubs. They just need to be serviced every 6months.

unfortunately bike owners only do replacement not preventative maintenance so cartridge bearing hubs have gained favour. Even so these also need maintenance. Seals for these hubs are available from BMI so a good clean out and a new seal should do the trick to keep them running for years. Instead peeps run the bearings till they’re broken then replace. These bearings are also not able to be preloaded so the original factory fitted bearings generally last long then replacements thereafter fail fairly regularly due to them not seeing the same preload again.