Shebeen Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I'm always curious about how they dope in some way. What is your theory?I love the way it is so circumstance based. Chris Froome, came from being a bilharzia suffering asthmatic to a Grand Tour winner?Unbelievable without doping. Peter Sagan, wins 6 green jerseys by miles?Pure talent, hard work and a killer IG account.
shaper Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 Agreed on Landa getting "chubby". I reckon one of the advantages of a big budget is a lot of doctors. I reckon Sky run their riders much closer to the limits than other teams and through using a bunch of doctors and carefully monitored power/energy usage they're able keep them juuuust the right side of not bonking/blowing up. Ironically Skybot is probably a word I'd use - just not in the same context! Agreed also on Froom'es multi GT streak - tough to keep it going.You also need to add in not only doctors/nutritionists but also race strategists. The pick apart every stage of a race and formulate how to win it, how to push each rider to his limit and beyond to get maximum effect and benefit to the team. You only have to look at how they analysed CF wonder ride and tour winning ride at the Giro and had food, drinks, wheels, support staff at critical points in the stage to achieve the goal.
Eldron Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I love the way it is so circumstance based. Chris Froome, came from being a bilharzia suffering asthmatic to a Grand Tour winner?Unbelievable without doping. Peter Sagan, wins 6 green jerseys by miles?Pure talent, hard work and a killer IG account.Agreed but in the "they all dope" defence Saga has not had a whiff of anything dope related. Sky/Froome have. I can understand (but not agree with) the pitchfork hatred/suspicion of Sky Froome.
Jewbacca Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 By fence case do you mean abusing TUEs/Chris' Salb case etc? Do you think cycling is cleaner, dirtier or same same? It certainly sounds like you're proper cynical with a flair for the conspiracy theory :-)By 'fence' case I mean all the people under investigation, guilty of something but not punished, used to be guilty but isn't anymore, served their time but are now better/just as good etc... There are way too many people nearly guilty/guilty but not prosecuted/guilty constantly in cycling for it to be seen as clean. Maybe the blatant blood bag/steroid pure doping as we remember it is a thing of the past, but with the development of science and the budgets going into the sport, I am pretty certain some chemists have mixed lizard blood, a pinch of dried cheetah poop and some dolphin lung to create a new type of cycling Bravestar powers. The powers that be just don't know how to test for it. Way too many irregularities for it to be clean. Better? Maybe. But I don't believe it. Just different with potentially slightly less drastic and obvious results...
Squier Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 No one is refuting this, must of us just have an issue with the blanket statement that everyone is doped up to their eyeballs, and when you ask for a more reasoned argument or dare I say proof or at least a theory, all you get told is that you are blind and a "skybot" and such. Just waiting for someone to tell me to stay "woke" then the level of ridiculous will be reached in which all credibility to their argument in my mind exits stage left. I'm pretty sure I posted almost this exact comment before the 2009 LA comeback. Just replace "Skybot" with "Fanboy". The Colonel and Fandacious were the "bad guys" and all I kept asking for was proof. I'd love to read those threads again... Bygones... Anyway... What I struggle to understand is why are people who are sceptical once again crucified? Given the history of the sport surely one can understand some scepticism? It's still highly competitive, gruelling and with a fair amount of money (well... sort off) and pressures to perform involved. Is the possibility that someone might put some substance into their body to gain an advantage so unfathomable? It's cleaner, for sure, but to what extent we do not know. Whatever the case may be, given what we know of cycling, there is room for arguments ranging from squeaky clean to doped to the eyeballs, even though both extremities seem unlikely.
Eldron Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 By 'fence' case I mean all the people under investigation, guilty of something but not punished, used to be guilty but isn't anymore, served their time but are now better/just as good etc... There are way too many people nearly guilty/guilty but not prosecuted/guilty constantly in cycling for it to be seen as clean. Maybe the blatant blood bag/steroid pure doping as we remember it is a thing of the past, but with the development of science and the budgets going into the sport, I am pretty certain some chemists have mixed lizard blood, a pinch of dried cheetah poop and some dolphin lung to create a new type of cycling Bravestar powers. The powers that be just don't know how to test for it. Way too many irregularities for it to be clean. Better? Maybe. But I don't believe it. Just different with potentially slightly less drastic and obvious results... That is a fair point - the number of guilty/bust riders, DSs, helpers, owners etc still involved in cycling makes it all smell a bit whiffy. I reckon it is on the up but you make enough points to justify your point of view. Hahaha I sound so magnanimous in my validation of your points
Jewbacca Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 That is a fair point - the number of guilty/bust riders, DSs, helpers, owners etc still involved in cycling makes it all smell a bit whiffy. I reckon it is on the up but you make enough points to justify your point of view. Hahaha I sound so magnanimous in my validation of your points It's like you want to join in the cynacism, but your hope outshines the negativity. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am watching 'aided' humans. It doesn't make me enjoy the racing any less.
lechatnoir Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 It's like you want to join in the cynacism, but your hope outshines the negativity. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am watching 'aided' humans. It doesn't make me enjoy the racing any less. 100% with you... Oddly though, it seems to raise my ire a few notches higher when positive results are released.... Am I being fair? - cheer one day, and pitchforks the next...
Mntboy Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I'm pretty sure I posted almost this exact comment before the 2009 LA comeback. Just replace "Skybot" with "Fanboy". The Colonel and Fandacious were the "bad guys" and all I kept asking for was proof. I'd love to read those threads again... Bygones... Anyway... What I struggle to understand is why are people who are sceptical once again crucified? Given the history of the sport surely one can understand some scepticism? It's still highly competitive, gruelling and with a fair amount of money (well... sort off) and pressures to perform involved. Is the possibility that someone might put some substance into their body to gain an advantage so unfathomable? It's cleaner, for sure, but to what extent we do not know. Whatever the case may be, given what we know of cycling, there is room for arguments ranging from squeaky clean to doped to the eyeballs, even though both extremities seem unlikely.I think anyone who knows the history of the sport is rather weary of saying the sport is 100% clean, 100% honest and 100% free of ethical issues. Mostly because it's not. We all know this. However I think the issue in this thread is the blanket "They're all cheating!" line wears thin and is, to a degree, not fair on those athletes that don't have any doping sanctions/issues over their heads. By all means let's doubt the perfomances of those who have been caught in the past but also give room to those who haven't to show us that they are indeed on the level. Essentially I like to believe most are getting their wins via ethical means (pushed to its boundaries as it is) and not through intentional skullduggery. That said I wouldn't be too surprised if the opposite gets proven true even if it's someone like Sagan who is so popular with everyone. Sent from my SM-J200H using Tapatalk
Eldron Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 It's like you want to join in the cynacism, but your hope outshines the negativity. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am watching 'aided' humans. It doesn't make me enjoy the racing any less.That's about right. On the clean/dirty scale I think I'm closer to the clean side than you. I do draw the line at absolutes though. The whole "they're ALL dirty" line irritates the *** out of me.
shaper Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I see the TdF has finished and the old broken record is out playing......
lechatnoir Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 It finally did come home!! TdF still not won by someone born in England...
SwissVan Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 I see the TdF has finished and the old broken record is out playing......LOL YeahAfter 13 years on this here bikehub..... it has calmed down a bit, however the script never changes.
Warren_G Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 Sagan! https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl2obUVg_gQ/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1lcri0s5x769p Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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