W/kg ranges corresponding to PPA road seeding

[V12man]

Unfortunately my statement does not agree with yours or with your post(s) and your suspicions on tests is also unfortunately wrong. Just cause you have not seen a study, doesn't mean none have been done.

 

I also should not of conversed with you, it was my own mistake.

 

Go well.

If I am wrong then provide your studies and evidence...

 

Otherwise show.me an athlete with a higher ftp at altitude than at sea level... done by a reputable tester

[Fat Boab]

If I am wrong then provide your studies and evidence...

 

Otherwise show.me an athlete with a higher ftp at altitude than at sea level... done by a reputable tester

 

 

A couple of peer-reviewed references in this link which may be worth a read of....

 

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-effect-of-racing-at-altitude/

[V12man]

A couple of peer-reviewed references in this link which may be worth a read of....

 

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-effect-of-racing-at-altitude/

Thanks - but I still can't find a reference to FTP increasing with altitude as per the "pro" coach's assertion...

[Fat Boab]

Thanks - but I still can't find a reference to FTP increasing with altitude as per the "pro" coach's assertion...

 

No problem. In which case, I'd say you are adopting a robust application of the null hypothesis....

[J Wakefield]

FTP has a significant "mental" aspect to it, it is not some absolute reference.

Unexpected, pathological results are to be expected. 

 

True, if on the day you really happy to hurt vs a day you not the results will differ. 

[eddy]

True, if on the day you really happy to hurt vs a day you not the results will differ.

 

The result of the test may change, but the physiology does not change.

[J Wakefield]

The result of the test may change, but the physiology does not change.

 

Of course, that goes without saying.

[J Wakefield]

The result of the test may change, but the physiology does not change.

 

Off topic: Cool Profile pic.

[Myth]

3W/kg on the dot

H batch at 52.07 - though this is very skewed since I have done almost no races for pretty much a year.

[Jewbacca]

If I am wrong then provide your studies and evidence...

 

Otherwise show.me an athlete with a higher ftp at altitude than at sea level... done by a reputable tester

Maybe I'm stirring but why don't you provide evidence that John is wrong?

 

Asking him to do all the work is cheeky just because you don't agree. I have no vested interest in this, I just always find it amusing that 2 guys with equally strong views will come to loggerheads and the one disputing 9 times out of 10 goes the 'prove it' route.

 

You chose to disagree, so if you want to really feel like you have 'won the point' follow that statement up with your proof.

 

Otherwise you are just as guilty as the guy you are disagreeing with.

 

I also struggle to see why a guy living at altitude, training and testing at atitude would have a better FTP UNLESS you were comparing his testability to when he had altitude advantage at sea level.

 

So an ability to suffer harder longer due to altitude training at sea level. This might be the missing point.

 

Just saying

[Tristand]

I think if we use the term 'lactate threshold' instead of 'FTP' then

we may all agree. 

[Patchelicious]

Maybe I'm stirring but why don't you provide evidence that John is wrong?

 

Asking him to do all the work is cheeky just because you don't agree. I have no vested interest in this, I just always find it amusing that 2 guys with equally strong views will come to loggerheads and the one disputing 9 times out of 10 goes the 'prove it' route.

 

You chose to disagree, so if you want to really feel like you have 'won the point' follow that statement up with your proof.

 

Otherwise you are just as guilty as the guy you are disagreeing with.

 

I also struggle to see why a guy living at altitude, training and testing at atitude would have a better FTP UNLESS you were comparing his testability to when he had altitude advantage at sea level.

 

So an ability to suffer harder longer due to altitude training at sea level. This might be the missing point.

 

Just saying

I think because John made the original claim? Surely the onus is on the person making the claim to present the supporting facts?

 

Making a claim and then telling people "Well Im right until proven wrong" is not really the correct approach. (Im not saying this is what John has done, but this seems like what you are asking to be done).

 

But yeah I agree, on scientific topic like this a stance of "because I said so" is not a convincing augment, from either side.

[V12man]

Maybe I'm stirring but why don't you provide evidence that John is wrong?

 

Asking him to do all the work is cheeky just because you don't agree. I have no vested interest in this, I just always find it amusing that 2 guys with equally strong views will come to loggerheads and the one disputing 9 times out of 10 goes the 'prove it' route.

 

You chose to disagree, so if you want to really feel like you have 'won the point' follow that statement up with your proof.

 

Otherwise you are just as guilty as the guy you are disagreeing with.

 

I also struggle to see why a guy living at altitude, training and testing at atitude would have a better FTP UNLESS you were comparing his testability to when he had altitude advantage at sea level.

 

So an ability to suffer harder longer due to altitude training at sea level. This might be the missing point.

 

Just saying

I am not disagreeing with any of the studies Fat Boab was kind enough to create links through to (and many other similar ones)  (I think they are fundamentally correct, although I suspect (an opinion) that there is greater variability in FTP drop than shown in those studies) - there are no studies I am aware of that show that athletes have higher FTP's at altitude that at sea level - but John says I am wrong, and that he has athletes that show better performance at altitude - and that I don't know about studies done that show this (not an impossibility, but fairly improbable (if I say so myself))

 

All I am saying is he should show the evidence that athletes have better performance at altitude than at sea level... if it exists.... because there is no good physiological explanation of improved performance at altitude that I am aware of (events that air resistance is considered a factor due to density excluded of course - sprints and very high speed events for example)

[rudi-h]

I think if we use the term 'lactate threshold' instead of 'FTP' then

we may all agree. 

 

not sure about that...  lactate threshold is much harder to measure (finger pricks) and not many people know theirs, me being one of them.  FTP is much easier to test and universally better understood from my side of the fence

[Tristand]

not sure about that...  lactate threshold is much harder to measure (finger pricks) and not many people know theirs, me being one of them.  FTP is much easier to test and universally better understood from my side of the fence

 

I should have specified. I was referring to the raging debate on the effects of altitude. FTP has a perceptive element where as lactate threshold is a direct physiological measurement.

[lechatnoir]

Why does this come to mind when reading this thread...?

 

Man: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

Mr. Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.

Mr. Vibrating: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Man: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'

Mr. Vibrating: Yes it is!

Man: No it isn't!

Man: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.

(short pause)

Mr. Vibrating: No it isn't.