Fat Boab Posted December 20, 2017 Share I am happy to run a controlled study on any armchair expert for them to experience Salbutamol use at the max legal dose limits - they are not going to enjoy that experience at all. One day, an offer to dent someone's car panels. The next day, an offer to max someone out on Salbutamol. What does tomorrow hold?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 20, 2017 Share I am happy to run a controlled study on any armchair expert for them to experience Salbutamol use at the max legal dose limits - they are not going to enjoy that experience at all.But that would be an inhaled dose; would an oral dose not be tolerated much better? Clen was hugely popular (still is amongst bodybuilders and figure athletes and they go up to around 200mcg daily) for its fat loss and muscle retention properties whilst dieting, and side effects aren't that severe especially after a week or two of use.One day, an offer to dent someone's car panels. The next day, an offer to max someone out on Salbutamol. What does tomorrow hold?! Volunteering reminds me of Tour de Pharmacy, where Stu (WADA) has to try all drugs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzbmQ67tahw&feature=youtu.be Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barend de Arend Posted December 20, 2017 Share I feel for Chris - the clearance of salbutamol from the body is very variable - so it's completely possible he stayed within the legal dose limits, but his urinary metabolite levels are too high - and it going to be VERY difficult to replicate the physiological and environmental conditions exactly to do a proper controlled test - next best thing to impossible, although they may get lucky - but my guess is they will try all other routes possible first to get around it. Just for emphasis on the variability: Petacchi (who has served a ban for Salbutamol) has claimed his daily metabolite count was 300, 400, 700, 500, and once 1200, using the same dosage. With Petacchi the rules were different: it was deemed a positive test. They've subsequently changed to allow more nuance. I assume the rules changed because the variability is so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velouria Posted December 20, 2017 Share ...(and he is not stupid enough to do this)...Hang on, hang on, hang on. On any normal, average day, you, I and Chris wouldn't touch a massive dose of Salbutamol. But people do strange things under pressure. Chances are that this was a mistake. Be it Chris's mistake, or a doctor's mistake, but it's a mistake induced by either carelessness, pressure, or the belief that he wouldn't be tested. I stopped thinking cyclists were Mensa members when I read articles like this: Michael Rasmussen asked dad to donate blood, used canine blood substitute Ricco admits blood transfusion caused hospitalisation Rourke Croeser and his insulin syringes for "lancing saddle sores" Cyclist Basso Says He Intended to Cheat (but hadn't yet) And if you need any more proof of their intelligence, try some of the excuses for why they tested positive: The Most Memorable Doping Excuses in Cycling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted December 20, 2017 Share But that would be an inhaled dose; would an oral dose not be tolerated much better? Clen was hugely popular (still is amongst bodybuilders and figure athletes and they go up to around 200mcg daily) for its fat loss and muscle retention properties whilst dieting, and side effects aren't that severe especially after a week or two of use.Oral is tolerated much better than inhaled - at the same dosage - It's not quite so effective quickly - still has a therapeutic place but there are better long term medications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted December 20, 2017 Share Hang on, hang on, hang on. On any normal, average day, you, I and Chris wouldn't touch a massive dose of Salbutamol. But people do strange things under pressure. Chances are that this was a mistake. Be it Chris's mistake, or a doctor's mistake, but it's a mistake induced by either carelessness, pressure, or the belief that he wouldn't be tested. I stopped thinking cyclists were Mensa members when I read articles like this: Michael Rasmussen asked dad to donate blood, used canine blood substitute Ricco admits blood transfusion caused hospitalisation Rourke Croeser and his insulin syringes for "lancing saddle sores" Cyclist Basso Says He Intended to Cheat (but hadn't yet) And if you need any more proof of their intelligence, try some of the excuses for why they tested positive: The Most Memorable Doping Excuses in Cycling I grant it could be a mistake - but if its inhaled only, and assuming renal clearance is normal, it is one hell of a big mistake... too big to do easily... and of dubious benefit for racing to overdose like that. In theory - And strictly a theory - the hourly limits should still stay under 1000 easily... And that dose by far exceeds the max therapeutic doses normally used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDL Posted December 20, 2017 Share If his treatment is to the disadvantage of other competitors, then he should give up cycling, to avoid an unfair situation.In what way would it be to the disadvantage of others if all it does is return his airways to normal function? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH8MUD Posted December 20, 2017 Share The Most Memorable Doping Excuses in Cycling Team Sky can top every doping excuse by claiming preterm labor treatment . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatman Posted December 20, 2017 Share Oral is tolerated much better than inhaled - at the same dosage - It's not quite so effective quickly - still has a therapeutic place but there are better long term medicationsSo would it not be very likely (or at least possible) that the cause of the elevated levels detected was oral use for performance benefits rather than inhaled use for asthma treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted December 20, 2017 Share So would it not be very likely (or at least possible) that the cause of the elevated levels detected was oral use for performance benefits rather than inhaled use for asthma treatment?They have been saying depending on the dosage that if it was oral usage or nebulized the levels would be much higher..only problem if Sky say a oral usage that would be a doping violation. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lechatnoir Posted December 20, 2017 Share Hang on, hang on, hang on. On any normal, average day, you, I and Chris wouldn't touch a massive dose of Salbutamol. But people do strange things under pressure. Chances are that this was a mistake. Be it Chris's mistake, or a doctor's mistake, but it's a mistake induced by either carelessness, pressure, or the belief that he wouldn't be tested. <snip> yes, but it's a legal thing. one side of the line is ok, the other is not. This is going to be argued ad infinitum, but it'll fall on one side or the other. i wish i had shares in a popcorn company... i'd be a rich man when this was over... Tom Dumoulin will be thinking that Christmas has come early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted December 20, 2017 Share Article found on Tweetiebird https://t.co/QQv3cZ4Ctl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted December 20, 2017 Share So would it not be very likely (or at least possible) that the cause of the elevated levels detected was oral use for performance benefits rather than inhaled use for asthma treatment?I will just restate - there is no documented sustained performance benefit from using salbutamol - either orally or inhaled. It's hard to speculate on what created such high levels - but there are only 2 options in essence - too high a dose of salbutamol or reduced clearing of salbutamol - or most likely (to me) a combination of both - I would be interested to know the salbutamol levels he had on the days he passed the drug tests - a level of 900 as opposed to a level of 200 imply vastly different things sbout his normal clearance rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco-fiets Posted December 20, 2017 Share I enjoyed the Stages podcast with Lance on this matter. I can recommend the listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Posted December 20, 2017 Share I will just restate - there is no documented sustained performance benefit from using salbutamol - either orally or inhaled. It's hard to speculate on what created such high levels - but there are only 2 options in essence - too high a dose of salbutamol or reduced clearing of salbutamol - or most likely (to me) a combination of both - I would be interested to know the salbutamol levels he had on the days he passed the drug tests - a level of 900 as opposed to a level of 200 imply vastly different things sbout his normal clearance rates.Shees... I asked Google a question and I landed on a body building site..those oke's would drink horse pee if they thought they could benefit from it. Seems they use clenbuterol and Salbutamol for fat loss..those oke's are mal.. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyB Posted December 20, 2017 Share Damage done for CF whatever the outcome...gonna be a tough 2018 for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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