What does it take to get a sub 3?

[Frosty]

4w/kg over a 105km ride is very different from what the guy referes to in the post. An FTP test is conducted in 20 minutes. I am pretty sure that 4w/kg over a period of 3 hours is only found at the highest levels amongst top pros.

thanks - makes sense when I read the post again. Silly me [emoji16]

 

 

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[bleedToWin]

Went through my Argus history now (because honestly it's the only sub3 I really care about) and it made for some interesting reading.

 

Lined up at the start   - 15

Done on MTB             -   2
Cancelled                   -   1

Shortened                  -   1

Crashed but finished  -   1
Windy, not cancelled  -   2

Just missed sub3        -  4

Not fit enough             -  2

Actual sub3                -  2

 

So I have been a serious rider and fit enough on the day to do a sub3 Argus on 11 / 15 attempts, but have actually managed to do so only twice!!

[Sitting@89]

From a recent article in the BA in flight magazine, I see Donovan van Gelder says you need an FTP of 4w/kg to do a sub 3 hour Argus. Looking at some of my earlier training files, that seems more or less right.

 

 

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I read your post a couple of days ago and the wheels in my head started turning (now let me just straight of the bat say, in no way am I trying to discredit DVG but...)

 

4w/kg seemed when I first read it high so I started digging a little deeper and asked one of my mates who is a self confessed numbers/metrics junkie and had done 5 sub 3 CTCT what he thought about that number, his reply, ludicrous it will be according to him more in the vicinity of 3-3.2 his highest ever on an FTP 3.8

 

This lead to me asking another 3 guys about the idea and the all dismissed it of the bat, one of them even going as far as saying that the reason GVD would say that in an article is shameless self promotion to an uninformed or misunderstanding crowd.

 

So to summarise what I have gathered, somewhere between 3.2-3.5 is plenty enough to finish CTCT sub 3

 

Some okes will say almost anything to try and lure gullible suckers into paying them to help them go faster (not my words)

 

You will have to train hard (and pretty consistently) eat fairly clean and a sub 3 CTCT should be within your grasp

[jcza]

FTP 3.8 - 4.0 w/kg

NP 3.3 - 3.5 w/kg

Ave 2.6 - 2.8 w/kg (misleading I know due to variables)

 

Important is first 20 mins to make sure you're still with the bunch as you hit the M3 so you can recover. Stay upright, watch all the obstacles through town and make sure you're in position for Smitswinkel. Stay with the bunch and there's more recovery and free speed. Get to top of Chappies and you should know if you're going to make it.   

 

Over before you know it.......don't forget to look around and appreciate the views. 

[Spinnekop]

FTP 3.8 - 4.0 w/kg

NP 3.3 - 3.5 w/kg

Ave 2.6 - 2.8 w/kg (misleading I know due to variables)

 

Important is first 20 mins to make sure you're still with the bunch as you hit the M3 so you can recover. Stay upright, watch all the obstacles through town and make sure you're in position for Smitswinkel. Stay with the bunch and there's more recovery and free speed. Get to top of Chappies and you should know if you're going to make it.   

 

Over before you know it.......don't forget to look around and appreciate the views. 

This.  

[devocean]

My very unscientific theory - if you can average 31km/h for a 100km ride in fair weather on your own then I think you're fit enough to stick with a bunch at an average of 37km/h needed  for a sub 3 argus.

[Man with no name]

4w/kg over a 105km ride is very different from what the guy referes to in the post. An FTP test is conducted in 20 minutes. I am pretty sure that 4w/kg over a period of 3 hours is only found at the highest levels amongst top pros.

Exactly. FTP is a one hour measure. Having the benefit of many years of data, my agreement with the 4/kg figure comes from looking where I was in years when I went <3

 

You still need corresponding vo2 and 30 sec power to match the better bunches on Edinburgh drive

 

An ftp of 4/kg is closer to 3.2/kg for the entire race, which again correspond to my np for any of my sub 3 Argus’

 

 

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[Man with no name]

I read your post a couple of days ago and the wheels in my head started turning (now let me just straight of the bat say, in no way am I trying to discredit DVG but...)

 

4w/kg seemed when I first read it high so I started digging a little deeper and asked one of my mates who is a self confessed numbers/metrics junkie and had done 5 sub 3 CTCT what he thought about that number, his reply, ludicrous it will be according to him more in the vicinity of 3-3.2 his highest ever on an FTP 3.8

 

This lead to me asking another 3 guys about the idea and the all dismissed it of the bat, one of them even going as far as saying that the reason GVD would say that in an article is shameless self promotion to an uninformed or misunderstanding crowd.

 

So to summarise what I have gathered, somewhere between 3.2-3.5 is plenty enough to finish CTCT sub 3

 

Some okes will say almost anything to try and lure gullible suckers into paying them to help them go faster (not my words)

 

You will have to train hard (and pretty consistently) eat fairly clean and a sub 3 CTCT should be within your grasp

Personally I have not made the <3hr cut at 3.2 to 3.5, but please remember this differs from person to person

 

Here is some TP excerpts for reference

 

 

 

Weight 79 kgs, ftp 317 watts (if memory serves). I must admit I did not have the muscular endurance required and struggle up Suikerbossie. Again, another factor to consider

 

 

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[Frosty]

Exactly. FTP is a one hour measure. Having the benefit of many years of data, my agreement with the 4/kg figure comes from looking where I was in years when I went <3

 

You still need corresponding vo2 and 30 sec power to match the better bunches on Edinburgh drive

 

An ftp of 4/kg is closer to 3.2/kg for the entire race, which again correspond to my np for any of my sub 3 Argus’

 

 

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That's how I mis-read your initial post... thinking 4W/Kg for the entire race rather than about 3.5W/Kg.

[Breezer]

My very unscientific theory - if you can average 31km/h for a 100km ride in fair weather on your own then I think you're fit enough to stick with a bunch at an average of 37km/h needed for a sub 3 argus.

Exactly my theory. If i train on my own, this is my goal. If i get a 32 average on my usual training route i know a Argus sub 3 is on the table.

[jcza]

Personally I have not made the <3hr cut at 3.2 to 3.5, but please remember this differs from person to person

 

Here is some TP excerpts for reference

 

 

 

Weight 79 kgs, ftp 317 watts (if memory serves). I must admit I did not have the muscular endurance required and struggle up Suikerbossie. Again, another factor to consider

 

 

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But your numbers show the following:

 

FTP - 4 w/kg

NP - 3.3 w/kg

 

Time 2:57 

 

Or am I missing something? 

[Man with no name]

But your numbers show the following:

 

FTP - 4 w/kg

NP - 3.3 w/kg

 

Time 2:57

 

Or am I missing something?

To clarify, by 3.2 to 3.5 I mean FTP not NP. NP will be <3

 

 

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[jcza]

To clarify, by 3.2 to 3.5 I mean FTP not NP. NP will be <3

 

 

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AHA thanks for clarifying. Can't see anyone go sub 3 at 3.2 - 3.5 FTP unless they're on a e-bike. 

[Man with no name]

AHA thanks for clarifying. Can't see anyone go sub 3 at 3.2 - 3.5 FTP unless they're on a e-bike.

Agree!

 

 

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[Skubarra]

Don't know about this power stuff, can't imagine I have impressive numbers.

 

For me Sub-3 is all about chilling in the bunch on the flat sections, getting in the right position before Smits/Chappies & Suikerbos and then climb as if your life depends on it and then finally after those climbs switch off your brain & keep up with the bunch on the descents at crazy speeds.

[arendoog]

My very unscientific theory - if you can average 31km/h for a 100km ride in fair weather on your own then I think you're fit enough to stick with a bunch at an average of 37km/h needed  for a sub 3 argus.

Bunch riding helps a lot ,but even in a bunch averaging 37km/h is really hard work