The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

Ahh For heavens sakes.

All you need to do is come to the see the Dairy industry in KZN and you will see your statements are thumb suck BS.

Im all for respecting different beliefs Vegan, vegetarian etc.

But when I see trivial BS it makes my blood boil

 

If you want to tell me I'm wrong, then please defend your position. 

[Eldron]

Then you would know that the video you posted has nothing to do with industrial meat harvesting. It's a video of some idiots abusing an animal.

 

The actual answer is most meat processing plants probably somewhere between what Mousea is saying and what Odi is posting.

 

I have seen really good rendering plants and some farkin heinous rendering plants! Most are "decent".

 

That said - watching an animal get killed is tough to watch - whatever the means of death is.

[Odinson]

Jissie man.. there are very strict regulation on how an abattoir is run and how animals are killed.. stop it.. my one client I phoned confirmed this.. and it is enforced.. the abbatoir are very strictly regulated and run as per the regulations.

 

Gen, do you honestly think that your client would say that he treats his animals poorly or that they are violently killed in an abattoir? 

[Mousea]

If you want to tell me I'm wrong, then please defend your position. 

you ARE wrong.

Don't use one out hundreds to make a point.

The point you make is.

A person was caught driving at 50km over the speed limit, therefore everyone drives at 50km over the speed limit.

[Patchelicious]

I'm not sure Odi if qualified to answer your question - he has stated that his reason for being a vegan is both to save animals and the planet - the combination of logic AND emotion renders his response invalid in any rational debate.

 

That said - hey Odi - are there ANY conditions where you think it would be acceptable to eat milk/eggs?

 

Me - I had a bunch of free range chickens in SA and happily ate their eggs. They were tastier than store bought, it controlled over population on the property and saved me some money (which I definitely lost in food for said chickens). A lot of the time the chickens abandoned a nest of eggs - which I tested and then ate.

 

That said I ate chicken at that time and still eat chicken now so my answer is also invalid!

He doesn't need to be qualified to give his personal opinion. I am asking his personal opinion based on the parameters that he has used.

[Escapee..]

Jissie man.. there are very strict regulation on how an abattoir is run and how animals are killed.. stop it.. my one client I phoned confirmed this.. and it is enforced.. the abbatoir are very strictly regulated and run as per the regulations.

 

I have a friend working at an abattoir

 

The Meat Act is very strict.

 

Unannounced monthly visits from the state vet as well as animal welfare organizations and 3 monthly audits by the state.

 

ISO certification on top of that and audited according to that as well

[Odinson]

Okay, it's really time consuming to answer to everyone's posts.

 

Regarding the 'humane slaughter' aspect: you cannot maintain the position that you are accepting of humanely slaughtered animals, therefore eat meat/dairy/eggs/etc. if you consume such products but you do not know the supply chain of each product you consume.

 

Secondly, let's take a look at what workers on the kill floor are saying: 

 

Slaughtering for a living: A hermeneutic phenomenological perspective on the well-being of slaughterhouse employees

 

 

 

Slaughterhouses constitute a unique work setting exposing employees to particular physical and psychological health challenges. Research that focuses on the well-being of slaughterhouse employees is limited, and the aim of this study was to explore their well-being by conducting a hermeneutic phenomenological study of specifically the slaughterfloor employees’ work-life experiences. The study was conducted in a South African commercial abattoir setting. Thirteen slaughterfloor employees and two managers of the slaughterfloor section participated in unstructured interviews. A hermeneutic phenomenological approach to data analysis was adopted following the stages of a naïve reading, a structural thematic analysis, and a comprehensive understanding. Data analysis resulted in four process-related themes representing the different stages of becoming a slaughterer, (mal)adjusting to slaughter work, coping with and maintaining the work, and living with the psycho-social consequences of slaughter work. Results facilitate an understanding of how employee well-being manifests in each of these stages of being a slaughterfloor employee. The risk potential of employees suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome was evident throughout the stages of being a slaughterfloor employee and offers a useful diagnostic framework to facilitate employee well-being assistance. Slaughterhouse management should develop a holistic focus addressing employee well-being needs evident in each of the stages of being a slaughter worker and by extending well-being interventions to the broader communities that the slaughterhouse functions in.

 

 

Slaughterhouse work is characterised by high staff turnover, absenteeism, and disciplinary actions (Broadway, 2007; Dalla, Ellis, & Cramer, 2005). This is due to the physically demanding and often monotonous nature of the work (Van Holland et al., 2015). Workers have to contend with an inherently hazardous work context since they handle dangerous cutting tools at extreme production speeds (Fitzgerald, 2010; Human Rights Watch, 2004). Slaughterhouses have some of the highest reported injury rates in the manufacturing industry (Beirne, 2004; Broadway & Stull, 2006). Injury rates have been reported to be as high as 20–36% per annum (Dalla et al., 2005; Dillard, 2008; Human Rights Watch, 2004; Olsson, 2002). The physically demanding nature of the work is exacerbated by the long shifts in a damp and cold environment (Human Rights Watch, 2004). Monotonous and repetitive movements in the production line coupled with a consistent urge to speed up production, cause employees to suffer from various ailments. These include carpal tunnel syndrome, “trigger finger,” back problems, and tendonitis (Pearson, 2004). These employees also suffer sprains, cuts, punctures, back pain (Broadway & Stull, 2006), “white finger” and cut wounds (Dillard, 2008), as well as musculoskeletal disorders, “claw hand,” ganglionic cysts, bursitis, and arthritis (Human Rights Watch, 2004).

Apart from the physically dangerous employment conditions, the underlying violent nature of working in a slaughterhouse (Barmak, 2010; Broadway & Stull, 2006; Olsson, 2002) also poses a risk to the psychological well-being of employees and cases of cumulative trauma disorder have been reported (Dalla et al., 2005; Kristensen, 1991). Slaughterhouse employees, furthermore, often lack adequate resources to cope with the strenuous environment. This is mostly due to their poor socio-economic background, lack of training, and the shortage of safety equipment at the site (Fitzgerald, 2010; Human Rights Watch, 2004). In addition, violence against animals has been linked to psychological health problems in humans (Beirne, 2004; Daly & Morton, 2008; Henry, 2004; Porcher, 2011). Consequently, deviant behaviour patterns of slaughterhouse employees have been reported in and outside of the work setting (Fitzgerald, Kalof, & Dietz, 2009) with specific reference to social dilemmas such as substance abuse, intimate partner violence, and an increase in crime rates (Fitzgerald, 2010).

 

What employees say: 

 

 

Edit: if the quality is poor, I'll post a better snip. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4841092/

Edited November 30, 2018 by Odinson

[Odinson]

Also, even if SA had the strictest slaughterhouses and no animal suffers any trauma, the meat you are eating is not necessarily South African. 26% of all poultry in SA was imported, SA also imports beef and a host of other meat products from other countries. Hell, the SA egg market is flooded with Lesotho eggs and the Dept. of Ag. has even now opened the market for US egg imports. 

[Patchelicious]

Also, even if SA had the strictest slaughterhouses and no animal suffers any trauma, the meat you are eating is not necessarily South African. 26% of all poultry in SA was imported, SA also imports beef and a host of other meat products from other countries. Hell, the SA egg market is flooded with Lesotho eggs and the Dept. of Ag. has even now opened the market for US egg imports. 

But Im not buying eggs, Im getting them from Pekkles.

[forkie]

shop responsibly. have a relationship with your butcher. thake the time to know where your meat comes from.

[Odinson]

But Im not buying eggs, Im getting them from Pekkles.

 

Okay, let's discuss Pekkles. 

 

I can't set that periphery for anyone. There is no guidelines or rule books. 

 

My personal opinion is that if you inherited/adopted some hen, care for it, ensure proper veterinary care and allow it to live out its natural life and she lays eggs which would otherwise just spoil, then go for it. Other people might disagree with me and that's just the way it is. 

[Escapee..]

The thing is, the methods you see are the 'humane' methods. Cows often have to be bolted multiple times by a captive bolt before they actually are stunned.  

 

There is a reason why countries such as the UK and USA have criminalized filming inside slaughterhouses. What happens in there is not humane. 

 

There is a halaal supervisor and quality controller present at all times. All animals bolted twice have to be recorded.

 

Carcasses are also checked for blood splash which is an indication of an ineffective stun as well as pH levels.

 

Independent inspection team will keep it for the vet to have a look at and if he isnt happy the meat is destroyed.

 

Stun to bleeding has to be less than 60 seconds as per the law.

 

So as you can see its heavily regulated.

[Odinson]

shop responsibly. have a relationship with your butcher. thake the time to know where your meat comes from.

 

Okay. So, you never eat out, never eat on the road, never travel? Because if you do, your argument is fallacious. 

 

Tell me, do you drive to the farms and abattoirs where your butcher's meat comes from?  

[Odinson]

There is a halaal supervisor and quality controller present at all times. All animals bolted twice have to be recorded.

 

Carcasses are also checked for blood splash which is an indication of an ineffective stun as well as pH levels.

 

Independent inspection team will keep it for the vet to have a look at and if he isnt happy the meat is destroyed.

 

Stun to bleeding has to be less than 60 seconds as per the law.

 

So as you can see its heavily regulated.

 

Escapee, I'm not trolling when I write this. If you can get me a pass into one of the abbatoirs that apply these measures, I'd organise you a case of the best Belgian brew. 

 

I'll be in SA in March/April next year. 

[stefmeister]

Ahh For heavens sakes.

All you need to do is come to the see the Dairy industry in KZN and you will see your statements are thumb suck BS.

Im all for respecting different beliefs Vegan, vegetarian etc.

But when I see trivial BS it makes my blood boil

It's called Vegan propaganda. 

I've unfriended/unfollowed/blocked so many of these sheep on social media that spread this misinformation.

[Patchelicious]

Okay, let's discuss Pekkles. 

 

I can't set that periphery for anyone. There is no guidelines or rule books. 

 

My personal opinion is that if you inherited/adopted some hen, care for it, ensure proper veterinary care and allow it to live out its natural life and she lays eggs which would otherwise just spoil, then go for it. Other people might disagree with me and that's just the way it is. 

Thanks dude, that was all I was asking for.

 

Would you personally eat her eggs?

 

Then another question, and this is not facetious, I am getting at something here that might be something to consider, I'll get to it now now.

 

When Pekkles dies after living out her natural life, could I eat her? She didnt die so that I can eat her, but now that she is dead, its either me or the earth worms?