The Veganism Thread

[davetapson]

Yes. 1 of many I think.

 

You're specifically growing and killing these animals and with your rose tinted glasses on being willfully appreciative of their circumstances.

 

I don't like seeing images of chickens in cages. I don't like seeing images of pigs living in boxes. I don't like seeing cows locked in restricted spaces. I don't like seeing ducks and geese being force-fed for foie gras, I don't like seeing the abuse of our oceans and the truckloads of 'acceptable collateral damage' being simultaneously hauled out in staggering numbers.

 

Most of all though I don't understand why you're rallying so hard against people choosing not to partake in these events.

Oh ok. I'm not really rallying hard, I'm just trying to provide some fodder against specious arguments that end up 'and so we should all be vegan.'

 

I suppose the irony is that folk don't like the idea of killing cows bit are quite happy with the entire destruction of everything that is involved in growing crops? And then the on going poisoning of everything including ironically, us.

 

There is no free pass when it comes to food production, something dies.

 

Odinson has said that veganism is an ethical choice and that's the crux of it - it's essentially an emotional choice.

 

Given that it's so hard to remain healthy long term on it, and make it palatable, it's a real sacrifice. And then it starts becoming a religion.

 

All the other justifications that go on around it are pretty specious on any investigation.

Edited August 5, 2019 by davetapson

[Skylark]

[Thor Buttox]

Oh ok. I'm not really rallying hard, I'm just trying to provide some fodder against specious arguments that end up 'and so we should all be vegan.'

 

I suppose the irony is that folk don't like the idea of killing cows bit are quite happy with the entire destruction of everything that is involved in growing crops? And then the on going poisoning of everything including ironically, us.

 

There is no free pass when it comes to food production, something dies.

 

Odinson has said that veganism is an ethical choice and that's the crux of it - it's essentially an emotional choice.

 

Given that it's so hard to remain healthy long term on it, and make it palatable, it's a real sacrifice. And then it starts becoming a religion.

 

All the other justifications that go on around it are pretty specious on any investigation.

It can't be a religion, because based on your own theory there is no way a vegan can do the heavy lifting required to support their faith, what with all the malnutrition?

[Milkman]

Oh ok. I'm not really rallying hard, I'm just trying to provide some fodder against specious arguments that end up 'and so we should all be vegan.'

 

I suppose the irony is that folk don't like the idea of killing cows bit are quite happy with the entire destruction of everything that is involved in growing crops? And then the on going poisoning of everything including ironically, us.

 

There is no free pass when it comes to food production, something dies.

 

Odinson has said that veganism is an ethical choice and that's the crux of it - it's essentially an emotional choice.

 

Given that it's so hard to remain healthy long term on it, and make it palatable, it's a real sacrifice. And then it starts becoming a religion.

 

All the other justifications that go on around it are pretty specious on any investigation.

 

 

That's an interesting take on it .

 

I suppose that's also why some vegans are so vocal ( aggressive almost ) in trying to " convert" the rest of the population ? Without them realising it , it becomes a bit of a religion to them .

There definitely are a lot of parallels that can be drawn between some religious zealots and some vegans .

[Milkman]

Animals and the planet in general (but I don't have kids so I shouldn't really care too much about the future world, not my problem!)...

 

Although I am not full blown vegan I have been vegetarian for a good few years...the weight just dropped off me (was 100kg at my porkiest....just below 80kg now, thanks to cycling AND eating better)....as for unhealthy...I hear that crap quite a bit from my mates...and each time they are told there are a couple of spare bikes in the house...come for a ride and lets see who is unhealthy....I get turned down each time! 

 

 

I also weighed just over a 100 before I started cycling, and now I am 81 kg's . 

I eat some type of meat ( in moderation ) in one of my meals probably 7 days a week .

 

You don't think your weight loss has a bit more to do with your cycling and eating better ( less sugar or just less in general ) than with being a vegetarian maybe ?

[Mudsimus]

I also weighed just over a 100 before I started cycling, and now I am 81 kg's .

I eat some type of meat ( in moderation ) in one of my meals probably 7 days a week .

 

You don't think your weight loss has a bit more to do with your cycling and eating better ( less sugar or just less in general ) than with being a vegetarian maybe ?

Ive been a meat eater all my life, and for the last 20 years my weight stayed constant at 70kg. A healthy BMI is maintained by a healthy lifestyle, diet and exercise. If you are a vegan or meat eater is irrelevant.

[Patchelicious]

Even though there's a lot of discussion about health on this thread, veganism is not about health. I've said it before - you can be unhealthy if all you eat is Oreos and fries. 

 

The statistics also paint a different picture than what you're claiming. The majority of Western populations consume too much animal protein. 'Red meat' has seen a moderate decline in certain Western countries (global consumption still increasing), but then only to be replaced by chicken, fish and pork. So, where's the benefit? 

 

You see the irony in your first and last sentences? 

Precisely. But then dont make it about health.

[davetapson]

I don't buy the 'eat meat in moderation' stuff either. There is mounting evidence of the bad press against it being a pile of hogwash.

 

So here's a thought:

You can eat only rib eyes, and thrive. No supplements, no fancy preparation. Maybe some salt.

 

You can't do that vegan. Unpalatable, need to be concious of nutritional deficiencies.

 

So the real truth of the matter is that you should probably be eating meat, with veg in moderation...

 

It's pretty much what I'm swinging towards.

[Odinson]

Dave, this one's for you: 

 

Just read this: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Odinson]

I don't have much time today to spend here, so just going to bang out two responses. 

 

On the whole 'religion' shtick. Let's put it in the human context and see if the argument holds up:

 

• Gender equality activists: "Why are you trying to convince people of the concept of equal rights between men and women? It's like a religion to you."
• LGBTQ activists: "Why are you trying to convince people of the concept of basic LGBTQ rights? It's like a religion to you."
• Abolitionists: "Why are you trying to convince people of the concept of not owning and exploiting other humans? It's like a religion to you."

Suffice to say, the premise of this argument does not hold up and is made in an attempt to discredit the messenger, so you don't have to address the message. "Don't listen to them, they're just a bunch of zealots". 

[Odinson]

Precisely. But then dont make it about health.

 

Two reasons: 

 

1. To dispel the 'malnourished, weak vegan' myth; 
2. It would be foolish to dismiss a mountain of nutritional evidence supporting a balanced, whole food plant-based diet. 

[Odinson]

Dave, this one's for you: 

 

Just read this: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987

 

 

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Bloody hell. Forgot to add this: 

 

[Eldron]

The UN is getting behind the drive to reduce meat consumption...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

[Patchelicious]

The UN is getting behind the drive to reduce meat consumption...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

Been on the news all day today. It’s a good thing.

[Patchelicious]

Interesting dynamic:

 

[Mojoman]

See.....another vegan telling us she is vegan...........