Safety on the roads ... and cyclists behaviour...

[Puncture Kid]

You can do whatever you like within the law and other road users must deal with it. 

 

Flip how is it that hard to understand?

 

If someone is doing 65 in an 80 zone do you hoot honk your horn flash your lights till the person pulls over?

 

Does your car have four round circles on the front or a B M W?

 

You can still act like a d00$ even while within the law. Acting like a d00$ make other road users gatvol. Don't be a d00$

[shaper]

You can still act like a d00$ even while within the law. Acting like a d00$ make other road users gatvol. Don't be a d00$

And where is someone acting like a d00$ doing 65 in an 80 zone?

[Quagga]

You can still act like a d00$ even while within the law. Acting like a d00$ make other road users gatvol. Don't be a d00$

I assume you are refering to the drivers on their phones? 

 

Cause those are the real d00ses around, for a motorist and as a motorist I get more gatvol when someone is on their phone and I am stuck behind them at a red light and then when they eventually go I get stopped by the light going red again RATHER than having to slow down behind a cyclist or tractor to Learner driver.....

[Jase619]

All hypothetical as well as the speeds you indicate.  All rises at some point as you drop over the other side could be blind.  Considering it was a blind rise, the car driver should have been slowing down as he does not know what is on the other side... a pedestrian crossing the road, a slow moving tractor or construction vehicle, even a broken down vehicle..... which he would have slammed into.... unless of course they are driving at the speed limit because it is a blind rise as such sections of the road have reduced speeds because it is a blind rise, in which case they would have plenty of time to come to a stop if needed.

 

So if a car had done this or that.... really????

 

Lets stick to facts rather than wild fantasy to justify.........

 

Do you ride defensively based on the facts or based on what a car might do? 

 

This thread has long passed the realms of fact, so why demand me to go back into that now? 

 

By the way, don't often see many roads with reduced speeds at blind rises, actually can't think of any. . . 

[mikeking]

All this talk about rules:...Here are some excerpts from the National Traffic act for your perusal

 

311. Riding on pedal cycles

(1) No person shall ride a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she is seated astride on the

saddle of such pedal cycle.

(2) Persons riding pedal cycles on a public road shall ride in single file except in the course of

overtaking another pedal cycle, and two or more persons riding pedal cycles shall not overtake

another vehicle at the same time.

(3) No person riding or seated on a pedal cycle on a public road shall take hold of any other

vehicle in motion.

(4) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall deliberately cause such pedal cycle to

swerve from side to side.

(5) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall carry thereon any person, animal or

object which obstructs his or her view or which prevents him or her from exercising complete control

over the movements of such pedal cycle.

(6) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall do so with at least one hand on the

handle-bars of such pedal cycle.

(7) Whenever a portion of a public road has been set aside for use by persons riding pedal

cycles, no person shall ride a pedal cycle on any other portion of such road.

(8) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road or a portion of a public road set aside for

use by persons riding pedal cycles, shall do so in such manner that all the wheels of such pedal cycle

are in contact with the surface of the road at all times.

(3) No person shall operate a pedal cycle on a public road unless there is fitted on the front of

such cycle a white retro-reflector complying with the provisions of regulations 189 and 192.

(4) No person shall operate a pedal cycle on a public road unless there is fitted on the rear of

such cycle a red retro-reflector complying with the provisions of regulations 189 and 192.

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subregulation (1) the pedals, pedal arms or spokes of a

pedal cycle shall, if such cycle is operated on a public road during the period between sunset and sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable weather conditions, persons and vehicles upon the public road are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres, be fitted with yellow or white reflectors or reflective material.

(1) Subject to the provisions of sections 58 (3) and 60 of the Act, no person shall operate on a

public road—(b) a pedal cycle, unless it is equipped with an efficient warning device which is in good working order and, when used, capable of giving adequate warning of its approach;

 

 

207. Compulsory wearing of protective helmet

 

 

(2) After expiry of three years from the date of commencement of this regulation, no person

shall drive or be a passenger on a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she is wearing a protective

helmet which fits him or her properly and of which the chin straps is properly fastened under the chin.

323. Special provisions relating to freeways

(1) No person shall operate on a freeway—(b) a pedal cycle;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jase619]

We are not discussing if the cyclist will survie or not, the point that was being made was if the cyclist were riding LEGAL or NOT.

 

Two different things, is legal for a cyclist ride about 20cm left of the middle of the road = YES

is it dangerous = "that is for another day" 

 

You seem to miss the point. Legal but unsafe (because SA drivers do not adhere to the road rules) is two different thing.

 

If SA drivers did adhere to road rules, cyclist and runners can do more legal things without being killed, for excample riding ON the road right next to the yellow line rather than 1 m LEFT of the yellow line

 

Not really, but thanks for assuming that.

 

I agree with your notion that if SA drivers obeyed the rules of the road we wouldn't be having this discussion, all I am saying is that encouraging, as you termed it, "legal but unsafe" use of the road is still an interesting stand point from my point of view. 

 

Self-preservation should be key, regardless of what a big book says we can and can't do.

 

I can legally walk around a township at 3am, but it doesn't mean I should exercise this right

[Velouria]

Closest I came to being taken out on a commute was the very first morning I had TWO front lights on the bike.  One seriously bright light, and another flashing light ....

 

Mommy was arguing with the toddlers in the back and just drove straight over the stop sign .... I was litterally drifting the bike sideways on the tar to not connect the car !

 

50m further she had to stop at the red robot ... very apollogetic, and admitting that her attention was not on the road ....

I'll take a taxi anytime over a mom (or dad) on the school run. Taxi's might be annoying, but generally, they're focused on stuff happening outside their vehicle. They see pedestrians, they see cyclists, they see cars. They are aware of things happening on the road.

 

Victims on the school run just see the chaos happening inside their vehicles!

[Pure Savage]

You can still act like a d00$ even while within the law. Acting like a d00$ make other road users gatvol. Don't be a d00$

 

Think you are failing to correctly identify the  d00$ in the above scenario. 

 

If a person feels its safer in the conditions to slow down as they crest a blind rise, the person behind must respect that and pass when safe to do so. 

 

Driving on the road requires a license and is a privilege where cycling is a right.

[Pure Savage]

All this talk about rules:...Here are some excerpts from the National Traffic act for your perusal

 

311. Riding on pedal cycles

(1) No person shall ride a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she is seated astride on the

saddle of such pedal cycle.

(2) Persons riding pedal cycles on a public road shall ride in single file except in the course of

overtaking another pedal cycle, and two or more persons riding pedal cycles shall not overtake

another vehicle at the same time.

(3) No person riding or seated on a pedal cycle on a public road shall take hold of any other

vehicle in motion.

(4) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall deliberately cause such pedal cycle to

swerve from side to side.

(5) No person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall carry thereon any person, animal or

object which obstructs his or her view or which prevents him or her from exercising complete control

over the movements of such pedal cycle.

(6) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road shall do so with at least one hand on the

handle-bars of such pedal cycle.

(7) Whenever a portion of a public road has been set aside for use by persons riding pedal

cycles, no person shall ride a pedal cycle on any other portion of such road.

(8) A person riding a pedal cycle on a public road or a portion of a public road set aside for

use by persons riding pedal cycles, shall do so in such manner that all the wheels of such pedal cycle

are in contact with the surface of the road at all times.

(3) No person shall operate a pedal cycle on a public road unless there is fitted on the front of

such cycle a white retro-reflector complying with the provisions of regulations 189 and 192.

(4) No person shall operate a pedal cycle on a public road unless there is fitted on the rear of

such cycle a red retro-reflector complying with the provisions of regulations 189 and 192.

(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of subregulation (1) the pedals, pedal arms or spokes of a

pedal cycle shall, if such cycle is operated on a public road during the period between sunset and sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable weather conditions, persons and vehicles upon the public road are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres, be fitted with yellow or white reflectors or reflective material.

(1) Subject to the provisions of sections 58 (3) and 60 of the Act, no person shall operate on a

public road—(b) a pedal cycle, unless it is equipped with an efficient warning device which is in good working order and, when used, capable of giving adequate warning of its approach;

 

 

207. Compulsory wearing of protective helmet

 

 

(2) After expiry of three years from the date of commencement of this regulation, no person

shall drive or be a passenger on a pedal cycle on a public road unless he or she is wearing a protective

helmet which fits him or her properly and of which the chin straps is properly fastened under the chin.

323. Special provisions relating to freeways

(1) No person shall operate on a freeway—(b) a pedal cycle;

Does not say that pedal cycles have to stop at stop streets...       

[sawystertrance]

"Driving on the road requires a license and is a privilege where cycling is a right."

 

???????

[Patchelicious]

Why is it so difficult for cyclist to simply not act like chops.

If we spent as much effort simply just being courteous as we spend on justifying why we did what, and stamping our cleats about rights, we would be in much better place.

 

Many people don't care about your rights, people care about themselves. Its not ideal, but its the reality. Take it into consideration.

 

Edit: This thread actually confirms my point.

[Call Me Manny]

This morning myself and my mate went out for a casual training ride out in the Cradle (Valverde to Lion Circle and back)

 

On 2 separate occasions I had to whistle and shout to get a cyclist attention as they gradually veered towards us, from the opposite direction, across both lanes! To my surprise the one thing they both had in common was their love of filming their mates and taking selfies.

 

This is not something I have ever come across before, I am just really hoping that it doesn't develop into a potentially fatal trend.

[Skubarra]

True, they had a legal right to be there, but if a car had come over that Blind rise at 80/100/120 or whatever the speed they decided to be doing there, and had taken them both out, would it have mattered? Would their widows have consoled themselves at night with the knowledge that legally they were in the right? You mention we all act defensively as we are all in mortal danger every time we get on the bike, but surely then they would not have been riding in the middle of the road on a blind rise? Legal or not?

 

It's a hard one - I think both the "It's your legal right" vs "But is it safe?" sides of the debate have some valid points and weaknesses. I agree it's cold comfort to your family if you get taken out riding on an "unsafe" spot even if you were legally within your rights to have been there.

 

The part that I do worry about when we do victim blaming or point out cyclists that "should have know better" is that we reinforce the idea that we are lesser road users that should not inconvenience the more important motorists. If we do "defensive cycling" aren't we just reinforcing the perception that we are intruding on motorist territory? Ultimately making it even less safe for cyclists because a "good" cyclist stay off the road on his mtb or at least out of the way while the "entitled" cyclists can only blame themselves when they get hurt.

[ChrisF]

Why is it so difficult for cyclist to simply not act like chops.

If we spent as much effort simply just being courteous as we spend on justifying why we did what, and stamping our cleats about rights, we would be in much better place.

 

Many people don't care about your rights, people care about themselves. Its not ideal, but its the reality. Take it into consideration.

 

Edit: This thread actually confirms my point.

 

Who hi-jacked Patches account ???

[Quagga]

Do you ride defensively based on the facts or based on what a car might do? 

 

This thread has long passed the realms of fact, so why demand me to go back into that now? 

 

By the way, don't often see many roads with reduced speeds at blind rises, actually can't think of any. . . 

Maybe go and read that book again that your read for your learners.....

 

Speed limit it that a LIMIT not a recommendation. 

 

They dont post reduced speeds when it rains either, YOU should know when to reduce speed.

[Patchelicious]

Who hi-jacked Patches account ???

Nobody. This has always been my point. Apparently I carry on about it so much that its tiresome are requires social media blocking.