For the aviation fans

[kosmonooit]

Maybe a bombe..., said in my best French inspector Claseua voice

 

Surely an explosive would like have blown the fuselage apart and there would be a point where it was normal and then it would have gone ...

 

Perhaps a fire in the cargo that started effecting hydraulics / controls ... foobar elevator controls for a start could have resulted in this wildly oscillating climb rate, they probably pulled back the power to try help control it but they needed height as well for a return. But we will soon know, they have the flight and data recorders, they are designed to survive big impacts. 

[kosmonooit]

Also I know the trend is been towards electrics for controls, i think the 787 features mainly electric power and motors vs hydraulics for ailerons, flaps and other controls, even the brakes. Not sure if this tech migrated to the 737 Max as yet.

[NotSoBigBen]

FYI

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[patham]

Tracked down my old hard drive with more pictures of interesting planes from a road trip in 2003 through Wyoming, Nebraska and South Dakota. The C119 and boneyard pictures are from what was an outfit called Hawkins and Powers, in Greybull, Wyo. They rebuilt old planes, generally into waterbombers, which they then used on government wildfire contracts. They lost 2 of their planes in crashes (in flight structural failures) in 2002 and the company went bankrupt shortly after I visited. Some of the planes went to museums but most got scrapped. If you saw the 2004 film Flight of the Phoenix (filmed in Namibia), the airplane had been rebuilt by them for the movie. They let us wander around freely - health, safety and security consisted of a request not to go into the spray paint hangar. 

 

[patham]

Some more random pics from my roadtrip. I think these are from a Strategic Air Command base that kept a bit of their history parked outside. Note the scale of me under the B52!

[SwissVan]

Surely an explosive would like have blown the fuselage apart and there would be a point where it was normal and then it would have gone ...

 

Perhaps a fire in the cargo that started effecting hydraulics / controls ... foobar elevator controls for a start could have resulted in this wildly oscillating climb rate, they probably pulled back the power to try help control it but they needed height as well for a return. But we will soon know, they have the flight and data recorders, they are designed to survive big impacts.

I’m still going for an AP computer type problem

[kosmonooit]

I’m still going for an AP computer type problem

 

Although the Lion Air accident was the stick pusher that kept pushing the nose down and that only works with no flaps and AP off, and was being activated by a faulty attitude sensor. Pilot was not trained / aware of this new  system  on the Max and did not know it was doing its thing or how to override it. Faulty sensor was flagged on previous flight yet the aircraft was put back into service.

 

Faulty sensors have caused many disasters, generally the first step in a series of events where often the pilots is misinterpret readings and take incorrect actions. - that Air France Airbus A330 Flight 447 that fell out of the sky in the middle of the night is case in point.

[MrJacques]

Although the Lion Air accident was the stick pusher that kept pushing the nose down and that only works with no flaps and AP off, and was being activated by a faulty attitude sensor. Pilot was not trained / aware of this new  system  on the Max and did not know it was doing its thing or how to override it. Faulty sensor was flagged on previous flight yet the aircraft was put back into service.

 

Faulty sensors have caused many disasters, generally the first step in a series of events where often the pilots is misinterpret readings and take incorrect actions. - that Air France Airbus A330 Flight 447 that fell out of the sky in the middle of the night is case in point.

 

I just read the Wikipedia article on flight 447 and I think I've seen it on air crash investigation. Sounds like it must have been terrifying!

[SwissVan]

Interestingly....

 

The ill fated Ethiopian 737 flew from Joburg to Adis on the same morning, the flight before....

 

The copilot, had very low hours.... 200 reportedly

The Captain had over 8000 hrs

[patham]

Although the Lion Air accident was the stick pusher that kept pushing the nose down and that only works with no flaps and AP off, and was being activated by a faulty attitude sensor. Pilot was not trained / aware of this new  system  on the Max and did not know it was doing its thing or how to override it. Faulty sensor was flagged on previous flight yet the aircraft was put back into service.

 

Faulty sensors have caused many disasters, generally the first step in a series of events where often the pilots is misinterpret readings and take incorrect actions. - that Air France Airbus A330 Flight 447 that fell out of the sky in the middle of the night is case in point.

 

I recall one of the human interest stories after the AF 447 flight was about a French family of 4 (2 parents, 2 children) who always believed in flying as 1 parent & 1 child in two separate planes so that a plane crash would not get them all. Two of them perished on that flight. I just think the guilt that the surviving two family members would have must be so hard to bear that was it worth it? Sometimes cold, hard science is one thing (i.e. maximising the chance to have the family genes continue), but emotions must be another.

[Long Wheel Base]

I am glad Comair decided to ground their max(ZS-ZCA). Boeing is going to take a knock from this. Seriously hope they find the issue and are able to clear it up ASAP for their and the families sake.

[patham]

I am glad Comair decided to ground their max(ZS-ZCA). Boeing is going to take a knock from this. Seriously hope they find the issue and are able to clear it up ASAP for their and the families sake.

 

I see the Australian civil aviation authority here has just grounded the 737 Max until they obtain more information that would indicate there is nothing systemic in the crashes. Not that there are any in domestic service, but they are not allowed to fly in from offshore.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/boeing-737-max-8-suspended-operations-australia/10894426

[SwissVan]

I see the Australian civil aviation authority here has just grounded the 737 Max until they obtain more information that would indicate there is nothing systemic in the crashes. Not that there are any in domestic service, but they are not allowed to fly in from offshore.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-12/boeing-737-max-8-suspended-operations-australia/10894426

Interesting

The more local authorities (ie anyone other than the FAA) start doing this is, it points to their being potentially something major wrong that needs to be fixed and not just a random *** luck event.

 

Read some interesting stuff on the Max series which I never realised before today.... google MCAS 737 Max and why they introduced it (MCAS)

[MrJacques]

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/what-is-the-boeing-737-max-maneuvering-characteristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/

[dirtypot]

[Ed-Zulu]

Interesting

The more local authorities (ie anyone other than the FAA) start doing this is, it points to their being potentially something major wrong that needs to be fixed and not just a random *** luck event.

 

Read some interesting stuff on the Max series which I never realised before today.... google MCAS 737 Max and why they introduced it (MCAS)

WOW, that could be explaining a lot especially if a pilot under stress cannot systematically and quickly override the MCAS and then tries fighting it. Scary s h i t