For the aviation fans

[Lotus]

Although I stay 8km(cycling distance so much less as the crow flies) from the airport we often have completely different weather. The worst I had at my place last night was light drizzle for short periods.

So what happens with that aircraft is it lands here mid morning. Then gets towed to a remote bay for the day. Then towed back to the parking bay early evening a few hours prior to departure. For international departures we need to have the aircraft in the bay 2 hours prior to departure so cargo, catering etc can do their thing. If it did rain there was no ways it rained for the whole time so a gap with no rain in those 2 hours could have been found. But even if it was raining, that is no excuse. SAFETY FIRST!!!

And I guess they can't just whip the pin out, top up the tanks and go right away again last night?

[Long Wheel Base]

How takes the flak for the missed pin ?

The engineer will get disciplined(severity will depend on his track record) as it is his job to remove the pin. If it was SAA the pilot might get a slap on the wrist but I doubt it as they pretty much untouchable here(Unless you fly for like 20 years without a license). But this is a foreign airline so I am not sure what their policies are wrt disciplining the pilot for this mess.

[Long Wheel Base]

And I guess they can't just whip the pin out, top up the tanks and go right away again last night?

They should have been able to. The fact that they dumped/burned fuel makes me think they never did an overweight landing so no inspections required. It would also depend on departure and arrival slots. for eg LHR have very strict laws about landing earlier or later so sometimes its just easier to fly slower or faster(or delay by a day) than take the penalties they apply. So if there was a departure slot for them here(which I am 99% sure there would have been) and an arrival slot in Spain?(assuming it was going there) that coincided with their take off time here then they would have been able to get away again last night. 

[DJR]

The engineer will get disciplined(severity will depend on his track record) as it is his job to remove the pin. If it was SAA the pilot might get a slap on the wrist but I doubt it as they pretty much untouchable here(Unless you fly for like 20 years without a license). But this is a foreign airline so I am not sure what their policies are wrt disciplining the pilot for this mess.

Make the pilot fly back home in economy, one of those isle seats where people squeeze past all night long to get to the wet & smelly toilets.

[Long Wheel Base]

Make the pilot fly back home in economy, one of those isle seats where people squeeze past all night long to get to the wet & smelly toilets.

I have heard stories that our pilots and their families get preference over paying customers for unlimited business class seats. Plebs like myself get 4 free(only pay airport tax) standby tickets a year(can apply once for a business class upgrade otherwise it's economy). Trying to use it anywhere near peak periods is a complete waste of time. For our Argus trip the latest we can get a seat down is the Tuesday and back up is the Wednesday. Any closer to the weekend and you got zero chance. Last few years I have just bought a ticket with Mango. For my honeymoon to MRU they tuned us like an hour before the flight that there was only 1 seat open. Luckily I had the Captains phone number and I called him. He gave permission for me to sit in the galley with the cabin crew and my wife got the 1 seat. If it weren't for that we would have had to wait and see if the next day was open. 

[dirtypot]

I have heard stories that our pilots and their families get preference over paying customers for unlimited business class seats. Plebs like myself get 4 free(only pay airport tax) standby tickets a year(can apply once for a business class upgrade otherwise it's economy).

 

My uncle works for SAA and his direct family get these perks.  He added my mom onto his list for a while when she was traveling frequently to the UK.  Besides the drastically reduced costs, it meant that she was either bumped into business class or had access to the crew beds to at least get a few hours of proper sleep. 

 

When I tried to do the same, all I got was an economy seat with a business class toiletries pack.  Not really what I was after...

[SwissVan]

My uncle works for SAA and his direct family get these perks. He added my mom onto his list for a while when she was traveling frequently to the UK. Besides the drastically reduced costs, it meant that she was either bumped into business class or had access to the crew beds to at least get a few hours of proper sleep.

 

When I tried to do the same, all I got was an economy seat with a business class toiletries pack. Not really what I was after...

Jinna boet..... try paying the full price and getting boggerol toiletries.

 

Because I have long legs I always pay extra for the exit or bulkhead seats... once I did this on a flight from JNB to zurich, got on the plane to find a family sitting in 3 seats at the bulkhead.... the Fokkers at the boarding gate held us back and gave them one of our seats, I refused to exchange my boarding pass for a new one with new seat number ( normal aisle and window seats) because we had paid extra already for this price Lage, they said it was because the family had a small kid..... held up the flight while we argued about it and eventually to allow them to close the doors I relinquished and took the new seat.... they then offered me a business class toiletry bag..... told the to FO!!

 

The dingbat family never even used the bulkhead attachment for small kids, the brat sat on the seat the whole time.... he feet did not even touch the floor.

 

Wrote a letter of complaint and got a 200 chf discount voucher. Swiss Air

Edited April 25, 2019 by SwissVan

[SwissVan]

On my current baby bizz jet we can dump. We have a “vortex generator” of sorts that by disturbing airflow it helps in vapourising the fuel as it dissipates.

On large types in an emergency close to the ground the fuel would certainly be liquid when it hits the ground.

Normally fuel dumping areas have minimum altitudes to try and ensure that fuel has dissipated before the ground.

Jet A1 has a freezing point close to minus 50. Typically the fuel in the tanks is around minus 15 to minus 30. Aircraft use various methods to keep the fuel “warm” some fuel is recirculated via fuel/ oil heat exchangers (on our aerie,heat from warm gearbox oil is used to preheat the fuel into the engine) or sometimes heat transfer systems from hydraulic pump heat can be used to heat fuel.

We are limited bulk fuel temp of Minus 37. Then we must decend! Not seen that before though.

 

Edited....but Swiss, I think you know about all them heat exchanger things!

Yip

Most of the time they work fine.

Most problems happen during extended long range hi altitude flights where the fuel freezes at a fuel pump inlet filter.

 

Happened to one of our aircraft (Beech 300) that was being ferried back to the USA, single pilot flying at FL 35 max fuel efficient power setting, both engines flamed out while he was somewhere between Luanda and Sao Tome.... luckily he was able to restart both at a lower altitude..... otherwise he woulda disappeared into the Atlantic.....

 

I think that BA 777 crash landing in England a few years ago had the same type of issue....

[DJR]

Note to self: Stop reading this thread a few weeks before flying again! 

[kosmonooit]

Note to self: Stop reading this thread a few weeks before flying again! 

 

Really still the safest way to travel, by far,

 

Isn't it normally the lacky FO who does the preflight on these commercials?  That is something that is drilled into you from Day1 when learning to fly.

[MrJacques]

If anyone has an interest in models, there are some old SAA toy / display models on BidOrBuy.

 

I have one of these: https://www.minttheshop.com/shop/saa-toy-planes-each/ (check out the video as well)

 

I got mine as a Christmas present years ago and I think it still works

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Jacquers

[Spokey]

Yip

Most of the time they work fine.

Most problems happen during extended long range hi altitude flights where the fuel freezes at a fuel pump inlet filter.

Happened to one of our aircraft (Beech 300) that was being ferried back to the USA, single pilot flying at FL 35 max fuel efficient power setting, both engines flamed out while he was somewhere between Luanda and Sao Tome.... luckily he was able to restart both at a lower altitude..... otherwise he woulda disappeared into the Atlantic.....

I think that BA 777 crash landing in England a few years ago had the same type of issue....

Blimming heck, that will focus the attention! Double engine flame out.

Incidentally, I have had engine failures in a single, a twin and a four engine aerie! Yeah, I believe ice crystals in the Trip 7 fuel.........well, that is what came out anyways....

[SwissVan]

Blimming heck, that will focus the attention! Double engine flame out.

Incidentally, I have had engine failures in a single, a twin and a four engine aerie! Yeah, I believe ice crystals in the Trip 7 fuel.........well, that is what came out anyways....

 

I failed to mention the engine flame outs were not simultaneous... a couple minutes apart  

Given the location and the pilot being all alone it must have been a terrible feeling

[Bonus]

Remember the BA 747 that had all 4 engines flameout in the middle of a flight? Now THAT must get the old heart going.

[Lotus]

Remember the BA 747 that had all 4 engines flameout in the middle of a flight? Now THAT must get the old heart going.

I seem to recall they flew through a volcanic ash cloud in the night (couldn't see it to avoid it)?

[kosmonooit]

I seem to recall they flew through a volcanic ash cloud in the night (couldn't see it to avoid it)?

 

That was over the ring of fire  - since then care has been taken to avoid volcanic ash clouds, which can be major events, like engulf the whole earth and cause decades of winter everywhere.

 

I don't think they show up on weather radar.