Enduro/gravity bike suspension and geo

[Bos]

7 minutes ago, PhilipV said:

Bos, Assegaai is die kat se snor. Grip in die draaie is iets anders. Vandat ek 'n Assegaai voor op het, kry ek myself gereeld in die moeilikheid, en die Assegaai vra nie vrae nie, dit verander net rigting. En as jy die fiets oor gooi in 'n draai, is daar nie 'n dooie vae kol in die middel nie.

Jy sal nie spyt wees nie. 

Het jy die max grip of max terra? En 2.5 of 2.6?

[PhilipV]

59 minutes ago, Bos said:

Het jy die max grip of max terra? En 2.5 of 2.6?

Jy vra moeilike vrae. Ek moes gaan kyk. 

Maxx grip 2.5. En op my ou fiets was dit ook Maxx grip. 

 

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, PhilipV said:

Bos, Assegaai is die kat se snor. Grip in die draaie is iets anders. Vandat ek 'n Assegaai voor op het, kry ek myself gereeld in die moeilikheid, en die Assegaai vra nie vrae nie, dit verander net rigting. En as jy die fiets oor gooi in 'n draai, is daar nie 'n dooie vae kol in die middel nie.

Jy sal nie spyt wees nie. 

It is a pretty spectacular tyre on the front

[Pieter1]

On 9/10/2022 at 12:46 AM, PhilipV said:

Bos, Assegaai is die kat se snor. Grip in die draaie is iets anders. Vandat ek 'n Assegaai voor op het, kry ek myself gereeld in die moeilikheid, en die Assegaai vra nie vrae nie, dit verander net rigting. En as jy die fiets oor gooi in 'n draai, is daar nie 'n dooie vae kol in die middel nie.

Jy sal nie spyt wees nie. 

Dis hoe ek voel oor my Magic Mary. Ek het wel nog nie die Assegai probeer nie maar toe ek bande nodig gehad het kon ek nie een opspoor nie. Nou weet ek nie of ek sommer weer gou MAXXIS sal gebruik nie...

[Hairy]

1 hour ago, Pieter1 said:

Dis hoe ek voel oor my Magic Mary. Ek het wel nog nie die Assegai probeer nie maar toe ek bande nodig gehad het kon ek nie een opspoor nie. Nou weet ek nie of ek sommer weer gou MAXXIS sal gebruik nie...

I have only only used the Hans Dampfs before, great feeling tyres, but they just never lasted and tended to puncture easier than my Maxxisssss counterparts.

Please check in with a long term review once you have beaten those tyres up a bit!

[Pieter1]

6 hours ago, Hairy said:

I have only only used the Hans Dampfs before, great feeling tyres, but they just never lasted and tended to puncture easier than my Maxxisssss counterparts.

Please check in with a long term review once you have beaten those tyres up a bit!

Will do. I have done 215km on the Hans and the MM but the trails here are hard packed and sandy with the odd root. Not much that can puncture or damage the tire. I have had no issues thus far. They roll much better than my dhr and dhf combo and the grip feels a lot better. I had my MAXXIS on for about 1500km according to Probike garage so I’ll see how these get on. 

[MORNE]

I get that it's probably impossible to help over a keyboard but I'm going to ask anyway.

Dont know if its just my utter lack of confidence on a mtb these days or something a bit more related to suspension setup...but after two relatively big days out (40km+) on my cotic Rocket droplink im not too keen with how the bike feels at the moment. It feels a bit 'wallowy' and vague in corners even on the mild trails i'be been riding. Forget jumps...my head is not there yet. Fox Factory x2 in the rear (160mm), Lyrik Ultimate 160mm in the front. Sag is set up as per Cotics recommendations (around 30% front and rear). I'm 90kg loaded up RTR. The lyrik got me there on 85psi with LSC and HSC basically open. rebound in the middle. The X2 got me there on 200psi also relatively open and close to stock fox settings for 200psi and what cotic recommends. 

DHR 2.5 front 20psi , Dissector 2.4 rear. 25psi

I get that it's such a loaded question and bike/rider dependent....but my head tells me i probably need a bit more HSC so it firms up a bit more in turns and feels less like a overly soft limo? i dont know. This in my first proper long travel Dualy too. maybe I'm just used to the 'support' you get on a hardtail.

I was going down supertubes at contermans yesterday and hit a burn quite fast, railed it pretty well, but as soon as I exit the corner it feels like the front wheel almost wants to 'flop', which causes you to steer with the bar...sit up...and sent me right off the trail into the grass haha.

enlighten me oh  chosen ones!

Edited September 19, 2022 by MORNE

[LazyTrailRider]

23 minutes ago, MORNE said:

I get that it's probably impossible to help over a keyboard but I'm going to ask anyway.

Dont know if its just my utter lack of confidence on a mtb these days or something a bit more related to suspension setup...but after two relatively big days out (40km+) on my cotic Rocket droplink im not too keen with how the bike feels at the moment. It feels a bit 'wallowy' and vague in corners even on the mild trails i'be been riding. Forget jumps...my head is not there yet. Fox Factory x2 in the rear (160mm), Lyrik Ultimate 160mm in the front. Sag is set up as per Cotics recommendations (around 30% front and rear). I'm 90kg loaded up RTR. The lyrik got me there on 85psi with LSC and HSC basically open. rebound in the middle. The X2 got me there on 200psi also relatively open and close to stock fox settings for 200psi and what cotic recommends. 

DHR 2.5 front 20psi , Dissector 2.4 rear. 25psi

I get that it's such a loaded question and bike/rider dependent....but my head tells me i probably need a bit more HSC so it firms up a bit more in turns and feels less like a overly soft limo? i dont know. This in my first proper long travel Dualy too. maybe I'm just used to the 'support' you get on a hardtail.

I was going down supertubes at contermans yesterday and hit a burn quite fast, railed it pretty well, but as soon as I exit the corner it feels like the front wheel almost wants to 'flop', which causes you to steer with the bar...sit up...and sent me right off the trail into the grass haha.

enlighten me oh  chosen ones!

The HSC on a Lyrik Ultimate isn't going to affect the feel you're talking about much, it's very difficult to discern any difference until you start hitting really big square-edged stuff.

Your setup sounds pretty mid-range, so my guess would be that you need to get used to adjusting your riding style slightly...

Maybe run 25% sag for a while and then work up to 30%?

Edited September 19, 2022 by LazyTrailRider

[PhilipV]

You're a big guy as well, so we're close ito setup. I'm running my rebound pretty fast though, it helps with small bump compliance and with popping out of berms and jumps.

 Compression (mid range fork and shock has only  this) wide open. 

 

But you have a bit of a learning curve there. the Cotic is looooong, with a lot of travel. Dis bietjie van 'n matras. You'll need to learn to ride more on the front wheel, and to bully the wheel where you want it. And then it will reward you for it. 

[MORNE]

10 minutes ago, PhilipV said:

You're a big guy as well, so we're close ito setup. I'm running my rebound pretty fast though, it helps with small bump compliance and with popping out of berms and jumps.

 Compression (mid range fork and shock has only  this) wide open. 

 

But you have a bit of a learning curve there. the Cotic is looooong, with a lot of travel. Dis bietjie van 'n matras. You'll need to learn to ride more on the front wheel, and to bully the wheel where you want it. And then it will reward you for it. 

ek besef dit 100%.

And it is long...it almost feels too long on some of the tiny switchbacks over here...and im sure thats what some of the "flop" is i'm feeling. I have tried as well to force byself to get lower over the bars and it does help indeed, the amount of speed it then generates and carries is insane, almost scary...but it is not muscle memory yet so as soon as things start coming thick and fast you obviously default back to what you have programmed yourself to do for the last 30years lol

 

the advantage of it being a bit of a old ouma matras at the moment is when it gets straight and rocky/rutty...it just plows through stuff likes it manicured singletrack haha

Edited September 19, 2022 by MORNE

[PhilipV]

4 minutes ago, MORNE said:

ek besef dit 100%.

And it is long...it almost feels too long on some of the tiny switchbacks over here...and im sure thats what some of the "flop" is i'm feeling. I have tried as well to force byself to get lower over the bars and it does help indeed, the amount of speed it then generates and carries is insane, almost scary...but it is not muscle memory yet so as soon as things start coming thick and fast you obviously default back to what you have programmed yourself to do for the last 30years lol

 

the advantage of it being a bit of a old ouma matras at the moment is when it gets straight and rocky/rutty...it just plows through stuff likes it manicured singletrack haha

a mate of mine also took a while to adjust to his Rocket. He now rides it like he stole it. 

Have fun!

[Jewbacca]

Big bikes on small trails always feel a bit junk until you start going faster.... I'd be tempted to ramp up your rebound and maybe add a spacer or two in the air can so you still get your sag, but have slightly more ramp into your travel.

But that sounds mostly like big bike syndrome. They only really feel alive when going fast and going over stuff

[Eddy Gordo]

as above try 25% sag. you could even go 20

[MORNE]

1 hour ago, Eddy Gordo said:

as above try 25% sag. you could even go 20

Rear only, or front and rear? 
also, i probably need to check the spacers in both at some stage. Previous owner wasnt sure what he had in there. He thinks there is 1x volume spacer in the fox x2 and that the lyrik might still have the stock ones in it which should be about 2, but then the fork has been reduced to 160mm too with new internals, so not sure what came out after that went in (its a 180/170mm version)

anyway, im gonna bump up the air for less sag and see how it feels, obviously more poppy. @Jewbacca and @PhilipV, the stock droplink setup for the shock as per cotic is supposedly in the more ‘bouncy side’ of the spectrum. They say it is unconventional for bikes like these(presumedly in uk) but to try it anyway. Ill set it at a few clicks in from fully open/fast.

 

[Jewbacca]

1 hour ago, MORNE said:

Rear only, or front and rear? 
also, i probably need to check the spacers in both at some stage. Previous owner wasnt sure what he had in there. He thinks there is 1x volume spacer in the fox x2 and that the lyrik might still have the stock ones in it which should be about 2, but then the fork has been reduced to 160mm too with new internals, so not sure what came out after that went in (its a 180/170mm version)

anyway, im gonna bump up the air for less sag and see how it feels, obviously more poppy. @Jewbacca and @PhilipV, the stock droplink setup for the shock as per cotic is supposedly in the more ‘bouncy side’ of the spectrum. They say it is unconventional for bikes like these(presumedly in uk) but to try it anyway. Ill set it at a few clicks in from fully open/fast.

 

Less Sag doesn't mean more pop unfortunately. Please don't just pump up the forks/shock and expect things to 'liven up'. What you will have is a big dead bike that doesn't use it's travel, feels harsh and isn'y moving how it was meant to  move from where it was meant to move.

Rather dial your rebound up. One sits in the travel to fill in the gaps so you have rubber on the ground which gives you better traction and better speed control. The optimal feel and geo is also set to work from that point in the curves.

Having a 160mm bike at 20% is even more rubbish. 

I bought in a Vitus Escarpe which was long and slack and was 150mm front and rear. It felt dead and cumbersome when I took it for a test round the easy trails in tokai.

I hit DH0 and immediately it felt like it belonged there, carrying speed, forcing me to lean it hard and get on the back wheel or float all the step down and drops. 

It was too much bike for what I enjoy riding so I swapped it for a Jeffsy.

Those Cotic Rockets are rad, but you do need to go fast and gnar to really bring them to life.

Maybe take it to the Droos at Stoke and ask them what's what. They will be more than happy to sort you out with proper knowledge and know how. They are consummate bike dorks

[PhilipV]

19 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

.

Maybe take it to the Droos . They are consummate bike dorks

And the Savage  droo is pretty good at riding a school bus bike bike.

Edited September 19, 2022 by PhilipV