Giant bike spotted in parktown north

[Mamil]

All this nonsense about the bike and the clothing and the perceived mismatch between the two and the kind of pedals on the bike compared with the shoes the guy was wearing is exactly that - nonsense. 

 

The thing that made this guy a "suspect" is his skin colour. That's all. the only ways he wasn't going to be regarded with suspicion is if his bike was obviously a beat up old cheapie or he had been in full Italian lycra with oakleys and a MIPS helmet.

 

And the sooner we're able to own this the better because then it can be dealt with. 

 

My own view is that it is not possible to have grown up in South Africa and not to have some form of racial bias in one's observation of the world. And the sooner we are all able to own up to that and examine it the better. Race and the perception of race informs our reflex observations all the time - the point is not to deny this and declare oneself not a racist - the point is to examine the ways in which we ARE using race as a powerful determinant of our thinking.

 

There was a black comic who did a gig at the funny festival a while back who said he and his wife had just moved from Langa into Newlands and that after a month in the new house he had his car window smashed and the radio taken. 

 

"10 years in the township with no problems" he said, "4 weeks in Newlands and this happens". He paused for drama and then with impeccable comic timing "So .... we're thinking it must be a white guy"

 

Brought the house down.

 

Because it's speaking to a truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dirkitech]

All this nonsense about the bike and the clothing and the perceived mismatch between the two and the kind of pedals on the bike compared with the shoes the guy was wearing is exactly that - nonsense. 

 

The thing that made this guy a "suspect" is his skin colour. That's all. the only ways he wasn't going to be regarded with suspicion is if his bike was obviously a beat up old cheapie or he had been in full Italian lycra with oakleys and a MIPS helmet.

 

And the sooner we're able to own this the better because then it can be dealt with. 

 

My own view is that it is not possible to have grown up in South Africa and not to have some form of racial bias in one's observation of the world. And the sooner we are all able to own up to that and examine it the better. Race and the perception of race informs our reflex observations all the time - the point is not to deny this and declare oneself not a racist - the point is to examine the ways in which we ARE using race as a powerful determinant of our thinking.

100% disagree

[Jonesy]

One of the biggest problems I think this country faces currently, is the pressure we are under to be overtly politically correct (and I use the term in the broadest possible sense). This works against us rooting out crooks, con-artists, the corrupt etc. and tends to condone a culture of "anything goes.." We should ideally, always be able to call-out the guilty regardless of colour, status, political affiliations etc...

 

However,  the OP here is way, way out of line. There are literally thousands of commuters all over the country on very similar bikes to the accused, that have either legitimately bought, or have been donated such inexpensive bikes that enable them to earn a living and perform simple daily tasks that most of us take for granted.

 

Confronting the person with security personel based on his demographic, clothes, etc..; then interrogating his boss and then posting on here in such manner; is a gross violation of this individuals rights. And if you think thats giving too much  consideration, think if it was you out riding your bike and then you where accosted by security officers and then taken to your boss for explaining.... Different picture isn't it?? This is daft on so many levels and illustrates the deep predjudices some of us hold. No wonder there's so much bitterness in this country. (at this point re-read my  first paragraph)

 

Sorry this was a brain-fart from the OP and there's no reason to entertain his post or be sympathetic towards him in what has been a shocking series of events.

[Kranswurm]

That guys is dressed neater than me for work ... and I also go about town at times with takkies on my SPD's .... does this mean I have to start riding with a letter addressed to myself stating that I am the owner thereof?

 

What right do we have to stop and interrogate a person without being a witness to a crime where the person was involved. Answer = we do not have the right to do so.

 

If I were questioned by a patrol crew my reaction would have been dismissive ... what then, would the patrol crew have taken action to "secure me and the bicycle"?

 

Unless a report goes out from a nearby location where a bicycle is reported stolen, and the bicycle matches the description, then there should be really no reason at all to question this or any other person.

Its fine...you're a paleface

[Stricker]

100% disagree

 

If you would be so kind to share why you disagree it would be highly appreciated as some very valid points were made and countering those points would make for a fascinating discussion.

[garonkent]

Sheesh ok guys, everyone blew a simple post fairly out of proportion. I felt like I didnt need to write down the whole story because I was just doing the dutiful thing here and if anyone was missing a bike like this then they could contact me and I'd lead them in the right direction.

 

Next time I post a simple sighting I'll be sure to follow it up with a complete report. (Although that will likely open me up for even more comments about every action I took as im sure there will be no end to the comments after this report)

 

So no Im not a cyclist, my brother is and he has had 2 bikes stolen from him at R60k and R100k so I thought Id just make a post and possibly help someone. I took a few photos and as you can see I posted the pics where you could see the bike but not his face. As one person commented that I have now defamed this person but I have not as was very careful in what pics i posted.

 

No I didnt just look at his skin colour and make an assumption. I noticed he was pushing the bike on a fairly gradual incline (easy enough to ride without effort) so I wondered why he wasnt riding the bike. I looked at the tires specifically and concluded they definitely weren't flat as they bumped up and down pavement and were properly pumped. I then wondered why this guy was commuting in jeans that would clearly get caught in the chain. I drove away wondering these things then circled back to have another look.

 

For the duration of 2 blocks he kept looking back as if he was either waiting for someone to catch up or worried about being seen, still pushing the bike. Yes sure all these things individually would be fine but all added up seemed suspicious to me so I called our security company and they said they'll just chat to him.

 

I then saw him walk the bike down a long driveway and ring the bell. He kept looking backwards behind him (Sure its SA so we all have to be aware of our surroundings if thats what someone was going to comment). He saw my vehicle parked on the road (roughly 35-40m away) and went inside and kept looking back. Security arrived almost as soon as the gate had closed and they walked down the driveway to chat to him. Within one minute he had completely changed into a black sleeveless top, black shorts and different takkies. Considering he wasnt walking up the road with much haste it did seem unusual that he changed within 60sec.

 

The security company was super relaxed when questioning him and im not sure what was said because I didnt understand but the security guy was smiling and not yelling so it didnt seem like a forceful interrogation to me but of course there must have been questions about what I saw. The guy was on the other side of the gate the entire time so I dont see how he would've felt so intimidated that he would be shaking. I mean if he wanted to he could've just walked inside the house and there's nothing more the security could've done.

 

He phoned his boss and she arrived within 3min and said that the bike was his, that her husband gave him the bike. I instantly felt embarrassed by the whole situation and apologised to both of them personally and left almost instantly. Only after walking back up the long driveway chatting to the security. The guy that was questioning him said that his answers were all over the place and he was shaking and really nervous. He said that the guy was wearing those sports-like clothes because he just went for a ride. So I showed the security guys the pics that he was just wearing when i saw him (jeans and a shirt) to clarify what I had seen and they stopped and looked back and said "look theres nothing we can do if his boss says they gave him that bike".

 

But since the lady said she had given him the bike we just left it. Yes I should've asked him these questions myself to get clarity but I didnt because I didnt know what had already been asked and I was nervous and embarrassed and well I've never stepped out of my comfort zone like this so I basically just ran away.

 

Overall my conclusion and the reason why I posted the sighting afterwards is because:

• When I got close to the bike I saw it had those fancy small cleat pedals. Im no expert but looked like that coz I obviously know what a normal pedal looks like.

• He was pushing a bike where he could've been riding a bike.

• As he got home he instantly changed within 60sec as if he was rushing out to go for a run but if was in such a rush that he'd change suspiciously quickly then why didnt he ride the bike back to the house?

• I found it strange that he was wearing jeans that would clearly get caught in the chain and if he had just hopped off the bike mid cycle then surely his jeans would still be tucked into his sock?

• He claimed he had just come back from a cycle in the current black clothes he is wearing so clearly lied and why would he lie.

 

I.e. I couldnt go back and question the guy coz he had someone vouch for him but I then instead just posted here.

 

Yes there is an alternative to every point I have mentioned here and all could be innocent but all these points added together in a country like SA and a city like Joburg. Well I acted on my instincts and tried to do the right thing even though it made me very uncomfortable doing so as my mother actually raised me to look the other way and let everyone else deal with everyone else's problems. At the age of 35 I thought I should maybe be more proactive in this country rather than just complaining about the crime.

 

Now that you have all the facts and the blow by blow I hope you'll understand why I did what I did in the moment when having to act quickly and not having hours to look at all rational possibilities of everything I saw.

 

I still feel I did the right thing in this situation but if you feel I didnt and didnt have enough evidence to go on, to handle this in the well mannered way I felt I did, then let me know, I can easily go back to being the person I was and do nothing while the country falls apart around me.

[Dirkitech]

If you would be so kind to share why you disagree it would be highly appreciated as some very valid points were made and countering those points would make for a fascinating discussion.

Everything I said in my post before that one.

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/183441-giant-bike-spotted-in-parktown-north/?p=3554033

 

I would expect anyone to confront anyone else that is behaving or appears suspect. For those you validate what justifies suspect in their eyes based on race, they can just move along swiftly. If I'm pushing or riding a bike with my handmedown tekkies, a cap, and dirty clothes, I would expect no less than to be confronted in spite of my race. In fact, it'll be the exact discrimination I'm speaking out against here. Race is literally irrelevant when you look at particular points as exhibited in my previous post. See some, say something. See something, say something!

[Dirkitech]

snip

I for one appreciate your due diligence in following up what appeared suspicious to you. Thank you for stepping outside of your comfort zone with the best intentions for other people's belongings and your write up was clear cut, answering a lot of assumptions made.

[Odinson]

This thread is like a extreme left's wet dream: 

 

Profiling on ethnicity: racism!

Profiling on economic status: classist!

Profiling on walking a bike: ableism!

 

Ten hub-points to each 'ism' added to this list. 

[urbanroyal]

Sheesh ok guys, everyone blew a simple post fairly out of proportion. I felt like I didnt need to write down the whole story because I was just doing the dutiful thing here and if anyone was missing a bike like this then they could contact me and I'd lead them in the right direction.

 

Next time I post a simple sighting I'll be sure to follow it up with a complete report. (Although that will likely open me up for even more comments about every action I took as im sure there will be no end to the comments after this report)

 

So no Im not a cyclist, my brother is and he has had 2 bikes stolen from him at R60k and R100k so I thought Id just make a post and possibly help someone. I took a few photos and as you can see I posted the pics where you could see the bike but not his face. As one person commented that I have now defamed this person but I have not as was very careful in what pics i posted.

 

No I didnt just look at his skin colour and make an assumption. I noticed he was pushing the bike on a fairly gradual incline (easy enough to ride without effort) so I wondered why he wasnt riding the bike. I looked at the tires specifically and concluded they definitely weren't flat as they bumped up and down pavement and were properly pumped. I then wondered why this guy was commuting in jeans that would clearly get caught in the chain. I drove away wondering these things then circled back to have another look.

 

For the duration of 2 blocks he kept looking back as if he was either waiting for someone to catch up or worried about being seen, still pushing the bike. Yes sure all these things individually would be fine but all added up seemed suspicious to me so I called our security company and they said they'll just chat to him.

 

I then saw him walk the bike down a long driveway and ring the bell. He kept looking backwards behind him (Sure its SA so we all have to be aware of our surroundings if thats what someone was going to comment). He saw my vehicle parked on the road (roughly 35-40m away) and went inside and kept looking back. Security arrived almost as soon as the gate had closed and they walked down the driveway to chat to him. Within one minute he had completely changed into a black sleeveless top, black shorts and different takkies. Considering he wasnt walking up the road with much haste it did seem unusual that he changed within 60sec.

 

The security company was super relaxed when questioning him and im not sure what was said because I didnt understand but the security guy was smiling and not yelling so it didnt seem like a forceful interrogation to me but of course there must have been questions about what I saw. The guy was on the other side of the gate the entire time so I dont see how he would've felt so intimidated that he would be shaking. I mean if he wanted to he could've just walked inside the house and there's nothing more the security could've done.

 

He phoned his boss and she arrived within 3min and said that the bike was his, that her husband gave him the bike. I instantly felt embarrassed by the whole situation and apologised to both of them personally and left almost instantly. Only after walking back up the long driveway chatting to the security. The guy that was questioning him said that his answers were all over the place and he was shaking and really nervous. He said that the guy was wearing those sports-like clothes because he just went for a ride. So I showed the security guys the pics that he was just wearing when i saw him (jeans and a shirt) to clarify what I had seen and they stopped and looked back and said "look theres nothing we can do if his boss says they gave him that bike".

 

But since the lady said she had given him the bike we just left it. Yes I should've asked him these questions myself to get clarity but I didnt because I didnt know what had already been asked and I was nervous and embarrassed and well I've never stepped out of my comfort zone like this so I basically just ran away.

 

Overall my conclusion and the reason why I posted the sighting afterwards is because:

• When I got close to the bike I saw it had those fancy small cleat pedals. Im no expert but looked like that coz I obviously know what a normal pedal looks like.

• He was pushing a bike where he could've been riding a bike.

• As he got home he instantly changed within 60sec as if he was rushing out to go for a run but if was in such a rush that he'd change suspiciously quickly then why didnt he ride the bike back to the house?

• I found it strange that he was wearing jeans that would clearly get caught in the chain and if he had just hopped off the bike mid cycle then surely his jeans would still be tucked into his sock?

• He claimed he had just come back from a cycle in the current black clothes he is wearing so clearly lied and why would he lie.

 

I.e. I couldnt go back and question the guy coz he had someone vouch for him but I then instead just posted here.

 

Yes there is an alternative to every point I have mentioned here and all could be innocent but all these points added together in a country like SA and a city like Joburg. Well I acted on my instincts and tried to do the right thing even though it made me very uncomfortable doing so as my mother actually raised me to look the other way and let everyone else deal with everyone else's problems. At the age of 35 I thought I should maybe be more proactive in this country rather than just complaining about the crime.

 

Now that you have all the facts and the blow by blow I hope you'll understand why I did what I did in the moment when having to act quickly and not having hours to look at all rational possibilities of everything I saw.

 

I still feel I did the right thing in this situation but if you feel I didnt and didnt have enough evidence to go on, to handle this in the well mannered way I felt I did, then let me know, I can easily go back to being the person I was and do nothing while the country falls apart around me.

So you were suspicious...that I get...what I don't get is why go to all the trouble of creating a profile and posting here..when all I would have done is WhatsApp my cycling brother and ask him..oh and btw..is your brother on the hub...????

[Mister B]

No point getting excited it's a 26" with V brakes , if it were mine I'd want it stolen because insurance pay out would be far more than you could sell it for legally.

[SwissVan]

This thread is like a extreme left's wet dream:

 

Profiling on ethnicity: racism!

Profiling on economic status: classist!

Profiling on walking a bike: ableism!

 

Ten hub-points to each 'ism' added to this list.

Ism it time to close this thread?

[IceCreamMan]

Funny how some jumped onto the racism angle so fast, it’s normally these ppl that moan the most when the race card is used by politicians.

 

You saw something you felt was suspicious and mentioned it here. Thank you.

 

We always moan bout crime and bicycle theft. Maybe we just like moaning.

[Eugene]

Does telling the difference between top end and not so top end get taught, i certainly missed the lesson then. When I started cycling i thought a bike was a bike, so my first since school days was a Makro Raleaigh, you could have shown me entry level and top level I would not know the difference.. Learned a lot since then, perhaps the OP is still in the dark.

Fair argument, but if you don't know what you are talking about, then don't go around accusing people of theft.

[Mamil]

Funny how these conversations seem to leave me hoping that the attitudes evinced by a lot of white people are not imputed to me simply because I'm white.

 

Now I'm going to put on my flip flops and go walk my bike around the neighbourhood to see which happens first - somebody steals my bike or accuses me of stealing it.

[BigDL]

Everything I said in my post before that one.

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/183441-giant-bike-spotted-in-parktown-north/?p=3554033

 

I would expect anyone to confront anyone else that is behaving or appears suspect. For those you validate what justifies suspect in their eyes based on race, they can just move along swiftly. If I'm pushing or riding a bike with my handmedown tekkies, a cap, and dirty clothes, I would expect no less than to be confronted in spite of my race. In fact, it'll be the exact discrimination I'm speaking out against here. Race is literally irrelevant when you look at particular points as exhibited in my previous post. See some, say something. See something, say something!

My friend, you or anybody else ever chooses to confront me when I am out with my bike, no matter how I am dressed or what I am doing, is going to ***.

 

Having said that, I used to have a bmw when I was in my twenties and normally spent weekends looking like a homeless dude. No shoes, babelaas, unshaven and generally dodgy. Nobody ever challenged me to prove ownership of my car.

 

I have also ridden my bikes through town often to take them to a cycle shop. I wear jeans and takkies for work and my bikes have clipless pedals. Sometimes I might push. Nobody has ever asked me to prove that I own them, either in SA or here. I wonder why?