DT SWISS Africa: Tech Q&A

[DieselnDust]

My original DT Swiss bearings were shot by 4500km.... never seen a pressure washer and has been looked after. 

 

Interested to know what the expected mileage is. At that kind of mileage I'm willing to experiment with generic bearings.

 

R1160 / 4500km = R0.25c per km just in rear hub bearings

The hollow gram Si hub in my rear wheel has done 12500km

The older 240s has done over 30,000km off road since 2007

 

Neither hub has had the bearings replaced. Star ratchet gets serviced and I cleanup the seals and apply grease under the end caps. Done.

4500km is nothing and I suspect there’s something else going on with the hub. Perhaps the bearings were not pressed in correctly from the factory.

Wheel bearings should not be enjoying such a short life

[DieselnDust]

What is configuration of the rear triangles of the bikes that seeing short bearing life?

[Hairy]

What is configuration of the rear triangles of the bikes that seeing short bearing life?

YT = Horst with Boost spacing

 

Edit: are you suspecting a twisting rear end?

Edited January 29, 2021 by Hairy

[DieselnDust]

YT = Horst with Boost spacing

 

Edit: are you suspecting a twisting rear end?

Yes I am.

PIVOT cycles made their Trail 429 with a 157mm super boost rear end plus they made it super stiff. No concession to the weight weenies there.

a Horst link will have a lot of inherent flex around the pivot area which happens to be where the hub is. The hub and thru axle is supposed to add stiffness but it could be that the hub isn't stiff enough for the task its been given. Generally the DT hubs are plenty stiff especially the straight pull versions. The flanged 350 flanged version will flex a bit more than the straight pull model. Couple to a less than stiff rear triangle with an aggressive riding style and the bearings get loaded quite heavily all the more reason to opt for angular contact bearings too

[Hairy]

Yes I am.

PIVOT cycles made their Trail 429 with a 157mm super boost rear end plus they made it super stiff. No concession to the weight weenies there.

a Horst link will have a lot of inherent flex around the pivot area which happens to be where the hub is. The hub and thru axle is supposed to add stiffness but it could be that the hub isn't stiff enough for the task its been given. Generally the DT hubs are plenty stiff especially the straight pull versions. The flanged 350 flanged version will flex a bit more than the straight pull model. Couple to a less than stiff rear triangle with an aggressive riding style and the bearings get loaded quite heavily all the more reason to opt for angular contact bearings too

I hear you, but am going to try out the SKF's first and if they do not last, then will fall back on to the DT's.

 

The rear on the YT is rather "chunky" and under sprinting loads it certainly feels as stiff, if not stiffer than previous bikes I have owned.

 

[DieselnDust]

That's only the bb area you're feeling. The clamping area around the rear wheel is the important bit that transfers load via your end caps into the axle. With any Horst link bike that has bearings in the pivots the dropouts will walk relative to each other.

Add in your thru axle a.k.a wheelclamping shaft to the mix which is likely not done up to the 12N.m because everyone out there leaves the thru axle lose enough to be able to undo it with a multi tool Allen key (short with no leverage).

Essentially your hub is likely being flexed by the this walking action.

To reduce the effect you can fit bigger end caps if hub and frame allow or use a TA that has the old school cam closing mechanism or just carry a long enough Allen key.

 

In this scenario again the angular contact is superior. Yes you're going for the cheap deep grooves as you keep posting that picture.

 

I'm just illustrating why the angular contact is better

 

 

Been waiting for Mr. Torque to post this one as I knew it was coming.

Enjoy

[Bicycle Supply Chain]

R290 x 4 = R1160.00 ex. labour .... looks like I am going the Enduro ABEC 3 route then, at least they still have a double seal.

 

R283.48 for the 4 x bearings, ex. shipping and labour

As a reference.

Wheels

I charge R75 per bearing fitted. This is for a standard ABEC-3 bearing. Double seal LLU type.

 

This also includes a freehub service and seal inspection. I use the specified special or universal grease from DT Swiss.

 

If I use the DT Swiss OEM BEARING. I charge R270 per bearing for the hubs.

 

This also includes a freehub service and seal inspection. I use the specified special or universal grease from DT Swiss.

 

 

Suspension pivots

 

I charge R90 per bearing fitted. This is for a standard ABEC-3 MAXX bearing. Double seal LLU type.

[Bicycle Supply Chain]

In the name of the backyard mechanic, the hammer and the cheap knock-off tools, Bless thou service for the local bike shop rips me off. Amen[emoji120]

Good luck “knocking out” the drive side bearing on a ratchet hub. When it’s Brocken then the “rip off” LBS may of been the cheaper option.

[DieselnDust]

Good luck “knocking out” the drive side bearing on a ratchet hub. When it’s Brocken then the “rip off” LBS may of been the cheaper option.

Amen

[Hairy]

That's only the bb area you're feeling. The clamping area around the rear wheel is the important bit that transfers load via your end caps into the axle. With any Horst link bike that has bearings in the pivots the dropouts will walk relative to each other.

Add in your thru axle a.k.a wheelclamping shaft to the mix which is likely not done up to the 12N.m because everyone out there leaves the thru axle lose enough to be able to undo it with a multi tool Allen key (short with no leverage).

Essentially your hub is likely being flexed by the this walking action.

To reduce the effect you can fit bigger end caps if hub and frame allow or use a TA that has the old school cam closing mechanism or just carry a long enough Allen key.

 

In this scenario again the angular contact is superior. Yes you're going for the cheap deep grooves as you keep posting that picture.

 

I'm just illustrating why the angular contact is better

 

 

Been waiting for Mr. Torque to post this one as I knew it was coming.

Enjoy

this is interesting, I have the DT twisty turney thingie axel 

 

now other thru axels that take a allen key are made out of alum and do not take too well to heavy handed pressure from a/key ... this thinkin back to the axel I had on my old Banshee Spitty frame.

[DieselnDust]

this is interesting, I have the DT twisty turney thingie axel 

 

now other thru axels that take a allen key are made out of alum and do not take too well to heavy handed pressure from a/key ... this thinkin back to the axel I had on my old Banshee Spitty frame.

And you can bet that the tightening was never near that required to produce the correct clamping force.

on your bike you have the DT skewer that folds back in the axle or the one that closes on a cam like an old school QR. If not then that's the one to have

[Hairy]

And you can bet that the tightening was never near that required to produce the correct clamping force.

on your bike you have the DT skewer that folds back in the axle or the one that closes on a cam like an old school QR. If not then that's the one to have

right tighty till you can't tighty anymore and the pull the lever back from the ratchet and place where you find to be the best location for the handle

[Rigardt@Scott]

right tighty till you can't tighty anymore and the pull the lever back from the ratchet and place where you find to be the best location for the handle

Righty tighty until it strips, then a 1/4 turn lefty?

[MarcHD]

That's only the bb area you're feeling. The clamping area around the rear wheel is the important bit that transfers load via your end caps into the axle. With any Horst link bike that has bearings in the pivots the dropouts will walk relative to each other.

Add in your thru axle a.k.a wheelclamping shaft to the mix which is likely not done up to the 12N.m because everyone out there leaves the thru axle lose enough to be able to undo it with a multi tool Allen key (short with no leverage).

Essentially your hub is likely being flexed by the this walking action.

To reduce the effect you can fit bigger end caps if hub and frame allow or use a TA that has the old school cam closing mechanism or just carry a long enough Allen key.

 

In this scenario again the angular contact is superior. Yes you're going for the cheap deep grooves as you keep posting that picture.

 

I'm just illustrating why the angular contact is better

 

 

Been waiting for Mr. Torque to post this one as I knew it was coming.

Enjoy

 

I beg to differ about this guy's theory that one cannot achieve 11nm with a RWS lever or any thru axle "handle" for lack of a better term. 11nm is not as high as people might think and is easily achieved by hand without the need for much leverage. Tested this with a torque wrench/spanner many times.

[TheoG]

Yea Marc, I agree with you, also tested with my torque wrench at 12Nm.  Really not that big a torque ...

 

Edit:  FYI Newton is capitol "N" ... 

Edited January 31, 2021 by TheoG

[DieselnDust]

I beg to differ about this guy's theory that one cannot achieve 11nm with a RWS lever or any thru axle "handle" for lack of a better term. 11nm is not as high as people might think and is easily achieved by hand without the need for much leverage. Tested this with a torque wrench/spanner many times.

 

 

I don't believe he says its not achievable, more that most people don't tighten it that tight.

I tighten my X-12 by with a multitool to higher than 11N.m.

The RWS skewers that are fitted to my Road PRC 1400 Spline wheels also achieve enough clamoing force. I just feel so comfortable tightening them so tight as the bike has carbon drop outs. But they're tight.

He also refers the ideal tightening torque for an M12 thread being much higher than 11N.m which is very true when consulting tightening torque tables. For Aluminium bolts in M12 its in the region of 28N.m, twice the tightening torque of a thru axle.

 

can I ask if its possible to return to a cam type clamping device? One of the annoying thing about TA's is that thing has to be done up flippen tight or it comes loose with time, especially the rear. Not a problem specific to DT, more other brands TA.