DT SWISS Africa: Tech Q&A

[Grease_Monkey]

right tighty till you can't tighty anymore and the pull the lever back from the ratchet and place where you find to be the best location for the handle

Righty tighty until it strips, then a 1/4 turn lefty?

[MarcHD]

That's only the bb area you're feeling. The clamping area around the rear wheel is the important bit that transfers load via your end caps into the axle. With any Horst link bike that has bearings in the pivots the dropouts will walk relative to each other.

Add in your thru axle a.k.a wheelclamping shaft to the mix which is likely not done up to the 12N.m because everyone out there leaves the thru axle lose enough to be able to undo it with a multi tool Allen key (short with no leverage).

Essentially your hub is likely being flexed by the this walking action.

To reduce the effect you can fit bigger end caps if hub and frame allow or use a TA that has the old school cam closing mechanism or just carry a long enough Allen key.

 

In this scenario again the angular contact is superior. Yes you're going for the cheap deep grooves as you keep posting that picture.

 

I'm just illustrating why the angular contact is better

 

 

Been waiting for Mr. Torque to post this one as I knew it was coming.

Enjoy

 

I beg to differ about this guy's theory that one cannot achieve 11nm with a RWS lever or any thru axle "handle" for lack of a better term. 11nm is not as high as people might think and is easily achieved by hand without the need for much leverage. Tested this with a torque wrench/spanner many times.

[TheoG]

Yea Marc, I agree with you, also tested with my torque wrench at 12Nm.  Really not that big a torque ...

 

Edit:  FYI Newton is capitol "N" ... 

Edited January 31, 2021 by TheoG

[DieselnDust]

I beg to differ about this guy's theory that one cannot achieve 11nm with a RWS lever or any thru axle "handle" for lack of a better term. 11nm is not as high as people might think and is easily achieved by hand without the need for much leverage. Tested this with a torque wrench/spanner many times.

 

 

I don't believe he says its not achievable, more that most people don't tighten it that tight.

I tighten my X-12 by with a multitool to higher than 11N.m.

The RWS skewers that are fitted to my Road PRC 1400 Spline wheels also achieve enough clamoing force. I just feel so comfortable tightening them so tight as the bike has carbon drop outs. But they're tight.

He also refers the ideal tightening torque for an M12 thread being much higher than 11N.m which is very true when consulting tightening torque tables. For Aluminium bolts in M12 its in the region of 28N.m, twice the tightening torque of a thru axle.

 

can I ask if its possible to return to a cam type clamping device? One of the annoying thing about TA's is that thing has to be done up flippen tight or it comes loose with time, especially the rear. Not a problem specific to DT, more other brands TA.

[MarcHD]

I don't believe he says its not achievable, more that most people don't tighten it that tight.

I tighten my X-12 by with a multitool to higher than 11N.m.

The RWS skewers that are fitted to my Road PRC 1400 Spline wheels also achieve enough clamoing force. I just feel so comfortable tightening them so tight as the bike has carbon drop outs. But they're tight.

He also refers the ideal tightening torque for an M12 thread being much higher than 11N.m which is very true when consulting tightening torque tables. For Aluminium bolts in M12 its in the region of 28N.m, twice the tightening torque of a thru axle.

 

can I ask if its possible to return to a cam type clamping device? One of the annoying thing about TA's is that thing has to be done up flippen tight or it comes loose with time, especially the rear. Not a problem specific to DT, more other brands TA.

 

Fair enough, this is true!

 

I can tell you DT won't be changing to any cam system anytime soon as their RWS technology has stood the test of time which is why it is by far the most popular skewer found on bike brands using OE products from DT such as your YT. 

 

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wheels-technology/rws-technology

 

With their removable "plug-in" levers now available more recently (including here in SA) the option to remove the lever and tighten the skewer to higher/correct torque levels is even easier.

[DieselnDust]

Fair enough, this is true!

 

I can tell you DT won't be changing to any cam system anytime soon as their RWS technology has stood the test of time which is why it is by far the most popular skewer found on bike brands using OE products from DT such as your YT. 

 

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wheels-technology/rws-technology

 

With their removable "plug-in" levers now available more recently (including here in SA) the option to remove the lever and tighten the skewer to higher/correct torque levels is even easier.

 

 

Is that skewer also available  with the lever permanently fixed in place like the RWS QR 5mm skewers?

Edited February 1, 2021 by DieselnDust

[MarcHD]

Is that skewer also available  with the lever permanently fixed in place like the RWS QR 5mm skewers?

 

yes we stock both the plug-in and standard "fixed" lever models.

 

Stock is up and down at the moment, but if we don't currently have, be sure we will always have on the way. 

[MarcHD]

Hey guys,

 

Just a reminder about our ongoing consumer poll, in which you can have the chance to have your thoughts known on the current state of DT Swiss in your market.

 

If you have just a few moments, we would be hugely grateful if you can complete our poll linked below.

 

There is no sign up, no emails gathered with which to spam you. Just a simple and easy to complete questionnaire that will help us improve and better serve you!

 

 

You can fill out the questionnaire here: https://forms.gle/k1p7TnKKE3AHfnif7

 

Thanks for your time, and continued support! 

[madmarc]

I hear you, but am going to try out the SKF's first and if they do not last, then will fall back on to the DT's.

 

The rear on the YT is rather "chunky" and under sprinting loads it certainly feels as stiff, if not stiffer than previous bikes I have owned.

 

 

 

I would run Deep Groove bearings without a problem.

 

In my opinion bearings in bicycle applications are operating no where near their design limitations. When designing a bearing application, 2 of the most important factors to consider (besides size of course) is the static and dynamic load capability, these are specified on the bearing data sheet and on lots of these small bearings, loads are above 500kg and no where near what they will experience on a bicycle.

the other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle.

 

Angular contact would be better to cater for loads experienced off the vertical when cornering, but once again, considering the design parameters and the application a deep groove will never fail.

 

99.9% of bearing failures are due to - Lack of lubrication - ingress of moisture (main reason) - ingress of dirt - operating beyond their design limits (very uncommon)

Service your bearings 4 x year - clean - repack with grease and you will never have to replace them.

[lechatnoir]

the other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle.

 

ABEC-9 on ALL headsets

[BaGearA]

I would run Deep Groove bearings without a problem.

 

In my opinion bearings in bicycle applications are operating no where near their design limitations. When designing a bearing application, 2 of the most important factors to consider (besides size of course) is the static and dynamic load capability, these are specified on the bearing data sheet and on lots of these small bearings, loads are above 500kg and no where near what they will experience on a bicycle.

the other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle.

 

Angular contact would be better to cater for loads experienced off the vertical when cornering, but once again, considering the design parameters and the application a deep groove will never fail.

 

99.9% of bearing failures are due to - Lack of lubrication - ingress of moisture (main reason) - ingress of dirt - operating beyond their design limits (very uncommon)

Service your bearings 4 x year - clean - repack with grease and you will never have to replace them.

. I was expecting a reply like this from someone, thanks

[Hairy]

I would run Deep Groove bearings without a problem.

 

In my opinion bearings in bicycle applications are operating no where near their design limitations. When designing a bearing application, 2 of the most important factors to consider (besides size of course) is the static and dynamic load capability, these are specified on the bearing data sheet and on lots of these small bearings, loads are above 500kg and no where near what they will experience on a bicycle.

the other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle.

 

Angular contact would be better to cater for loads experienced off the vertical when cornering, but once again, considering the design parameters and the application a deep groove will never fail.

 

99.9% of bearing failures are due to - Lack of lubrication - ingress of moisture (main reason) - ingress of dirt - operating beyond their design limits (very uncommon)

Service your bearings 4 x year - clean - repack with grease and you will never have to replace them.

I beg your pardon!

 

1. "other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle." I spin that with a 36t chainring and the nice 9t on my E-Thirteen Cassette all the time.

 

2. Angular contact would be better to cater for loads experienced off the vertical when cornering, but once again, considering the design parameters and the application a deep groove will never fail. Have you seen me slapping #EnduroBro berms! I thought so. These things will explode on my first ride!

[DieselnDust]

We all know you're saddle licking Savage bearing eater Hairy

[madmarc]

I beg your pardon!

 

1. "other is max design speed like the load these bearings can handle 12000 rpm in grease and higher in oil - once again no where near the speeds experienced on a bicycle." I spin that with a 36t chainring and the nice 9t on my E-Thirteen Cassette all the time.

 

2. Angular contact would be better to cater for loads experienced off the vertical when cornering, but once again, considering the design parameters and the application a deep groove will never fail. Have you seen me slapping #EnduroBro berms! I thought so. These things will explode on my first ride!

 

Now that we've calculated your cadence - If you let us know what you and your bike weigh we can calculate how many G's you pull through those berms 

[Hairy]

Now that we've calculated your cadence - If you let us know what you and your bike weigh we can calculate how many G's you pull through those berms 

if I told you that they would block me from riding any of the trails.

[DieselnDust]

Ebiker

Edited February 2, 2021 by DieselnDust