DT SWISS Africa: Tech Q&A

[MarcHD]

Out of interest Marc, what makes this grease so special?

 

It's a Molykote grease with mineral content that differs from standard grease in order to withstand high temperatures, and in more severe conditions. 

 

It runs less viscous than standard grease and lasts longer

[DieselnDust]

R330 for 25gr of lube...

 

 

OK it's expensive and now I know why. Dow Corning!!

Edited April 30, 2021 by DieselnDust

[MarcHD]

Hi all, 

 

The below was a post made recently by us on another Bikehub forum in relation to an ongoing issue the community was having with rim/wheel breakages at nipple/spoke holes (Don't worry it wasn't with regards to DT Swiss products!)

 

As much of this info might be of interest and/or use to our DT Swiss community, please feel free to go through the info below...

 

 

Let us know if you feel we left anything out!

 

 

"There are a number of causes for rims failing prematurely, many of which are intermarried. Hopefully we can shed some light on this below...

 

1. Spoke tension.

Even the strongest rims in the world will eventually crack at the spoke/nipple holes if the spoke tension is not optimal.

This is due to the amount of flex spokes undergo in a typical ride as the loads change on the wheel. As an example: when cornering the spokes on the lower half of the wheel will have a reduced load, causing them to slacken a bit, while the opposite is true of spokes at the top half of the wheel. If the tensions are below optimal this slackening with load changes will be increased of course, and over time this constant tugging on the nipple will pull it through the rim. The lower the tension, the harder the tugging. 

 

2. Intended use and Weight limit (ASTM classifications)

This part is often overlooked, but it incredibly important. All manufacturers have a very specific target market for which they intend a specific rim (or any product) to be used for. If, for example, you are using a product outside of this intended use and/or weight limit, a brand is well within their rights to deny any warranty for premature wear or breakages. 

 

3. Correct tools and best practices. 

This ties in somewhat with point 1. but it should stand to reason that a self proclaimed wheel builder should use certain techniques and tools as a MINIMUM requirement. 

This includes things like a spoke tension meter, spoke prep/nipple thread lock, destressing the wheel during builds, correct lacing methods (yes there is a correct way and wrong way) and any parts specifically required by the manufacturer. For example: DT Swiss rims using thin wall technology require the use of PHR washers and matching nipples as the rims have been carefully engineered to pair with these specific nipples.

 

4. Fair use/abusing products.

Again, this ties in a lot with point 2 and shouldn't need to be touched on really, but if you are using an XC rim to huck road gaps.... do not expect them to last! 

 

5. Spoke choice. 

Also largely overlooked. "A spoke is a spoke" Is not something you ideally want to hear from your wheelbuilder. Spokes vary hugely in their quality and their intended use! 

A thin spoke might save you some grams, but it will not be able to be tensioned to the same loads as a thicker spoke and as we mentioned above, this lower tension will cause more flex in the spoke and possibly expedite the premature breakage of rim/spoke/nipple. 

Further to this, not all spoke are created equal, and while most of the time you will probably not notice (or care) about the difference in spokes, the reality is the quality control and manufacturing techniques vary greatly from brands and a premium spoke will certainly outlast an inferior one

 

6. Spoke lengths 

Again, sometimes overlooked. Although thankfully most wheelbuilders understand this concept very well. The length of the spokes need to be as close to perfect as possible. It's a widely accepted practice for dealers and distributors to only carry even length spokes (carrying the odd ones as well would cost a fortune) and there is nothing wrong with this as long as the spokes are within an accepted tolerance for the given nipple choice. Example: if a spoke calculator indicates an exact spoke length being 295.5mm it is perfectly acceptable to upsize the spoke to 296mm ONLY if a rear drive nipple is being used. Alternatively if a standard nipple is being used a downsizing may be required. However as is the case in this specific example, it's not likely a store will carry a 295mm spoke. It is not best practice to downsize to 294 as this is a difference of 1.5mm and may cause the nipple to be compromised in strength as the spoke thread is not perfectly mated with the nipple thread. In this case opting for rear drive nipples, even at the greater initial (and unexpected) cost as it will very likely save you lots more money in the long run! "

Edited April 30, 2021 by MarcHD

[MarcHD]

R330 for 25gr of lube...

 

Lifetime supply

[Mongoose!]

Hi there,

 

It is imperative that DT's special grease always be used in the servicing of Star Ratchet, Ratchet EXP and Ratchet LN systems.

 

It is important to note that in the event that your ratchets suffered a premature malfunction, DT Swiss would not cover this malfunction under warranty. 

 

Our suggestion is to source the special grease from your LBS or through our recently updated B2C portal and replace the standard grease with this special grease immediately to avoid any potential issues.

 

You can find the special grease on our site here:

https://getstokedonline.co.za/product/dt-swiss-special-grease-for-ratchet-system-hubs-20g/

 

Alternatively I get hold of your preferred LBS and send the product to them directly for you. 

 

Regards,

 

Thanks 

[PhilipV]

Lifetime supply

What people forget when repairing/servicing/fitting things themselves is that consumables used need to be on spec for it to be done correctly.

 

It's akin to doing an oil-change on your vehicle at home, but then using the wrong oil for that engine.

 

And while it will be a lifetime supply, and useful for someone who will service it himself regularly, the guy who needed it for a one-time use would probably have been cheaper off to have his lbs fit the freebody, or buy a scoop or two of grease from them.

[DieselnDust]

What people forget when repairing/servicing/fitting things themselves is that consumables used need to be on spec for it to be done correctly.

 

It's akin to doing an oil-change on your vehicle at home, but then using the wrong oil for that engine.

 

And while it will be a lifetime supply, and useful for someone who will service it himself regularly, the guy who needed it for a one-time use would probably have been cheaper off to have his lbs fit the freebody, or buy a scoop or two of grease from them.

 

 

 

tell you what, at R330 I'll be servicing my hubs just as regularly. With regular use I reckon I'll get 2years out of the tub across the 3 DT Swiss star ratchet hubs I have.

My bottle of ring drive lube was R110 in 2016 and I've just run out. LBS gave me a replacement bottle because thye bought a box and haven't even got to the 2nd bottle yet.

[MarcHD]

tell you what, at R330 I'll be servicing my hubs just as regularly. With regular use I reckon I'll get 2years out of the tub across the 3 DT Swiss star ratchet hubs I have.

My bottle of ring drive lube was R110 in 2016 and I've just run out. LBS gave me a replacement bottle because thye bought a box and haven't even got to the 2nd bottle yet.

 

If we want, we can actually pretty accurately calculate the expected lifespan of a 20g tub...

 

As per the DT Swiss user and technical manuals one is expected to service their star ratchets

a Minimum of annually (in the case of normal use)

a Maximum of quarterly (in the case of extreme use such as dust and rain)

 

On average it takes about half a gram (0.5g) to correctly coat the star ratchets once they have been cleaned of old grease

 

20g / 0.5g = 40 total uses (minimum)

or 10 quarterly uses. (maximum)

 

Going for the conservative worst case scenario of every 3 months/quarterly this means you have a minimum of 2.5 years/30months of use from one tub (assuming it's one hub you are servicing) 

 

In your case Tim, that is 10months of servicing with your three sets of DT hubs you have, again assuming you ride in UK mud and/or Gauteng dust all year around!

 

 

 

 

Yes it's a slow Friday.... 

[thebob]

Hi Marc

Are you going to be bringing in any of the 36t ratchet kits? Keen to try the halfway between the 54 and 18 to see how it affects my bike's rear suspension

[MarcHD]

Hi Marc

Are you going to be bringing in any of the 36t ratchet kits? Keen to try the halfway between the 54 and 18 to see how it affects my bike's rear suspension

 

Hi there,

 

Yes we have actually have a few coming in our next shipment.

I can get in touch with your closer to their time of landing? 

 

Thinking of it another way, the 36T hub won't so much affect the suspension as the suspension will affect the 36T hub.

 

Meaning a bike with high percentages of pedal kickback will obviously tug on the chain at a higher rate, which is then exacerbated the higher your hub's engagement is as there is less room for the chain growth to be taken up.

 

Noticing you have a Giant Trance 29er listed as your personal ride, we can look at the kinematics of your bike in detail through this blog spot:

 

https://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2019/09/giant-trance-29-2019.html

 

Here we see the Giant Trance (at least the 2019 model) has a relatively low pedal kickback value - roughly middle of the spectrum found on contemporary bikes. 

 

For this reason both the 54T and the 36T would be fine for your use, and I personally ride a Giant Reign with a 54T upgrade and have had no negative feedback.

 

Cheers

[thebob]

Thanks Marc. I'll work through my LBS to get hold of one

[Hairy]

If we want, we can actually pretty accurately calculate the expected lifespan of a 20g tub...

 

As per the DT Swiss user and technical manuals one is expected to service their star ratchets

a Minimum of annually (in the case of normal use)

a Maximum of quarterly (in the case of extreme use such as dust and rain)

 

On average it takes about half a gram (0.5g) to correctly coat the star ratchets once they have been cleaned of old grease

 

20g / 0.5g = 40 total uses (minimum)

or 10 quarterly uses. (maximum)

 

Going for the conservative worst case scenario of every 3 months/quarterly this means you have a minimum of 2.5 years/30months of use from one tub (assuming it's one hub you are servicing) 

 

In your case Tim, that is 10months of servicing with your three sets of DT hubs you have, again assuming you ride in UK mud and/or Gauteng dust all year around!

 

 

 

 

Yes it's a slow Friday.... 

Hi Mark

 

DT are proud RE the ease of service for their hubs, and rightly so.

 

Would it not be an idea for the brand to look at doing smaller pillow packs for the "average home user" who will be doing this every now and again.

 

What brings me to this line of thought:

1. Cost will be minimal for a little pillow pack that can maybe cater for 2 or 3 services
2. Low cost for a small item like this being kept in a jar on the LBS point of sale counter would = a person just quickly adding a pillow or two when paying.
3. The person would then be more prone to "just quickly" clean out and service the free hub. This in turn means that your products being used would generally be cared for better and get a better lifespan, and so doing entrench a reputation of being super reliable and easy to work on.

See the Fox Pillow packs

Edited April 30, 2021 by Hairy

[MarcHD]

Thanks Marc. I'll work through my LBS to get hold of one

 

Happy to reach out to your LBS to give them all the details for you?

[MarcHD]

Hi Mark

 

DT are proud RE the ease of service for their hubs, and rightly so.

 

Would it not be an idea for the brand to look at doing smaller pillow packs for the "average home user" who will be doing this every now and again.

 

What brings me to this line of thought:

1. Cost will be minimal for a little pillow pack that can maybe cater for 2 or 3 services
2. Low cost for a small item like this being kept in a jar on the LBS point of sale counter would = a person just quickly adding a pillow or two when paying.
3. The person would then be more prone to "just quickly" clean out and service the free hub. This in turn means that your products being used would generally be cared for better and get a better lifespan, and so doing entrench a reputation of being super reliable and easy to work on.

See the Fox Pillow packs

 

A good point, and DT Swiss have actually already answered this question.

 

Going forward all tubs have been replaced with a toothpaste style tube that makes application much easier. All Star Ratchet upgrade or service kits will come with this tube as standard as well now.

 

It is still however a 20g serving, I suspect due to DT wanting to keep the expectations the same.

 

I will however forward your query to DT for [hopefully] an addition to their range. 

 

Thanks for the feedback

[Hairy]

A good point, and DT Swiss have actually already answered this question.

 

Going forward all tubs have been replaced with a toothpaste style tube that makes application much easier. All Star Ratchet upgrade or service kits will come with this tube as standard as well now.

 

It is still however a 20g serving, I suspect due to DT wanting to keep the expectations the same.

 

I will however forward your query to DT for [hopefully] an addition to their range. 

 

Thanks for the feedback

If they got for it I will accept 1 x pillow pack as commission

[DieselnDust]

Hi Mark

 

DT are proud RE the ease of service for their hubs, and rightly so.

 

Would it not be an idea for the brand to look at doing smaller pillow packs for the "average home user" who will be doing this every now and again.

 

What brings me to this line of thought:

1. Cost will be minimal for a little pillow pack that can maybe cater for 2 or 3 services
2. Low cost for a small item like this being kept in a jar on the LBS point of sale counter would = a person just quickly adding a pillow or two when paying.
3. The person would then be more prone to "just quickly" clean out and service the free hub. This in turn means that your products being used would generally be cared for better and get a better lifespan, and so doing entrench a reputation of being super reliable and easy to work on.

See the Fox Pillow packs

 

 

Look at you neh Mr MBA Marketing