XTR issues (both brakes and gears)

[Jbr]

Hey all,

 

I recently changed from an M8000 XT 1x11 bike to a new high end bike with full XTR, and since then I've been having issues with the rear brake and the gears that I can't solve.

 

The rear brake was bleeding oil below the lever, despite a few bleeds from cycle teknix and Giant Durbanville it was always spongy until I pumped it and then it would give better lever feel. The actual bite was never great though, or really after a while riding. Diagnostic was a popped piston (probably some idiot bled it from the bottom, I've done it before and learnt the hard way)

 

So I decided to pay an arm to import a replacement lever from the US. Same issue, I let two of those small shimano funnels go through the system and I still have that spongy feel until it's pumped up. The front brake never had that issue... Should I take the caliper appart ? I'm a bit clue less there...

 

Regarding the gears, I could never have a clean run up and down the cassette, ended up replacing the cable, as usually when the shifting is a bit ***, this solves the issue. The old one was showing signs of wear, so I thought it would now run perfect.... nope, still has the same issue, either I tighten it and it goes up smoothly but then it doesn't go down the first big gears, or I losen it and I have to "over shift"  (pushing the lever a bit more than the clic) the smaller gears to go up the cassette.

Surely that's not the way high end components are supposed to work ? I do not remember my old XT to be so approximative. My road bike has AXS man I wish I could set my gears independently on my MTB now...

 

Any recommendations for one or both issues ?

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jbr

[DieselnDust]

Does you brake hose and rear derailleur cable housing run through the the frame into the rear triangle through an S_bend somewhere to allow for enough length for the suspension to articulate?

 

What bike is it you're riding?

[GhostSixFour]

Check the derailler hanger for straightness.

With regards to the brakes, was the calipers rebuilt after the "pop"?

[Jbr]

Does you brake hose and rear derailleur cable housing run through the the frame into the rear triangle through an S_bend somewhere to allow for enough length for the suspension to articulate?

 

What bike is it you're riding?

Scalpel 2019, and both cables come out the main frame below the BB and run along the rear triangle with plenty of length available.

 

No I just fitted the new lever and bled the system.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jbr

[Jbr]

I wanted to take the chain out to follow religiously the manual regarding the limit screws but I couldn't even remove the quicklink with my usual technique with wire and pliers...

I'm now thinking the the chain might need to be replaced... it seems a bit lose behind the biggest gear, but not at all if I pull it from in front of my chainring... 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jbr

[Iron]

Scalpel 2019, and both cables come out the main frame below the BB and run along the rear triangle with plenty of length available.

 

No I just fitted the new lever and bled the system.

new xtr levers with what calipers ?

[Jbr]

new xtr levers with what calipers ?

M9000, I just replaced the old lever (popped) with a new one

[Iron]

M9000, I just replaced the old lever (popped) with a new one

so to clear up 9100 levers with 9000 calipers ?

[ChrisF]

...., and since then I've been having issues with the rear brake and the gears that I can't solve.

 

The rear brake was bleeding oil below the lever, despite a few bleeds from cycle teknix and Giant Durbanville it was always spongy until I pumped it and then it would give better lever feel. .....

 

Dropped of my bike this morning .... 200km since the last bleed .... lever just went "soft" during my ride on Thursday ...

 

Brakes being sent to Shimano .... let's see if it gets repaired or replaced ....

 

 

PS - Not sure of the exact model number of the brakes (Giant Trance E 2019).  It is a nice 4-pod system.  Dealer noted this is not the only warrantee issue with these brakes in the last few months .... possibly a bad batch, as these previously gave excellent service ....

 

 

 

PPS - Dealer, also Giant Durbanville, has been super helpful !!!

 

 

 

 

YES, these are still very much under warrantee ... but I will admit .... this has me wondering .... what 4-pod brakes would the Hubbers use on a set of 203 discs .....  

Edited September 28, 2020 by ChrisF

[keithbe]

Running Hope Tech 3 V4; work beautifully. Biggest issue at the moment...trying to find flipping brake pads :| Covid shortage

 

YES, these are still very much under warrantee ... but I will admit .... this has me wondering .... what 4-pod brakes would the Hubbers use on a set of 203 discs .....

Edited September 28, 2020 by keithbe

[Jbr]

so to clear up 9100 levers with 9000 calipers ?

Indeed, they look exactly the same, but looks like the new lever is a M9100...

 

EDIT : wrong again, the caliper and lever ARE M9100.. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Jbr

[Iron]

Indeed, they look exactly the same, but looks like the new lever is a M9100...

ok there is your problem  9100 levers are not back compatible with 9000 calipers , this is the problem you having they will stay spongy . 9100 can only be used with new 9100 calipers  ( they are smaller and use the new small pads )

[BaGearA]

Dropped of my bike this morning .... 200km since the last bleed .... lever just went "soft" during my ride on Thursday ...

 

Brakes being sent to Shimano .... let's see if it gets repaired or replaced ....

 

 

PS - Not sure of the exact model number of the brakes (Giant Trance E 2019).  It is a nice 4-pod system.  Dealer noted this is not the only warrantee issue with these brakes in the last few months .... possibly a bad batch, as these previously gave excellent service ....

 

 

 

PPS - Dealer, also Giant Durbanville, has been super helpful !!!

 

 

 

 

YES, these are still very much under warrantee ... but I will admit .... this has me wondering .... what 4-pod brakes would the Hubbers use on a set of 203 discs .....

 

Hope E4's, enough power, unmatched lever feel and pads are easier to find than the V4

[Jbr]

ok there is your problem  9100 levers are not back compatible with 9000 calipers , this is the problem you having they will stay spongy . 9100 can only be used with new 9100 calipers  ( they are smaller and use the new small pads )

Sorry I checked and the calipers are 9100 also.. probably something in the brake line OR the caliper now, but what are the ods after the lever popping that something else is faulty...

[Iron]

Sorry I checked and the calipers are 9100 also.. probably something in the brake line OR the caliper now, but what are the ods after the lever popping that something else is faulty...

odd are good i guess , sorry out of ideas , was my 2cents worth .

[Lance Stephenson]

Hey all,

 

I recently changed from an M8000 XT 1x11 bike to a new high end bike with full XTR, and since then I've been having issues with the rear brake and the gears that I can't solve.

 

The rear brake was bleeding oil below the lever, despite a few bleeds from cycle teknix and Giant Durbanville it was always spongy until I pumped it and then it would give better lever feel. The actual bite was never great though, or really after a while riding. Diagnostic was a popped piston (probably some idiot bled it from the bottom, I've done it before and learnt the hard way)

 

So I decided to pay an arm to import a replacement lever from the US. Same issue, I let two of those small shimano funnels go through the system and I still have that spongy feel until it's pumped up. The front brake never had that issue... Should I take the caliper appart ? I'm a bit clue less there...

 

Regarding the gears, I could never have a clean run up and down the cassette, ended up replacing the cable, as usually when the shifting is a bit ***, this solves the issue. The old one was showing signs of wear, so I thought it would now run perfect.... nope, still has the same issue, either I tighten it and it goes up smoothly but then it doesn't go down the first big gears, or I losen it and I have to "over shift"  (pushing the lever a bit more than the clic) the smaller gears to go up the cassette.

Surely that's not the way high end components are supposed to work ? I do not remember my old XT to be so approximative. My road bike has AXS man I wish I could set my gears independently on my MTB now...

 

Any recommendations for one or both issues ?

Your shifting issue is related to the clutch being dry and too tight out of the factory.  Back off the clutch pressure and see if this improves things.  We solved the exact problem you describe this way at Tankwa Trek.  The shifting was so bad at one stage we replaced sifters thinking it was the problem, mean time, a 2min clutch lube and tension adjustment and the shifting was pristine as XTR should be.  Bleeding wise, Going slow is the key here.  These breaks are ultra simple.I presume you are using the supplied Shimano bleed blocks?  Bleeding is an artwork and should not be rushed (after all it is a safety mechanism on your bike).  What I do to finish a bleed, I remove the bleed block and pump the lever once to push the pistons out. I only do a slight sliver of piston on each side. Then I take bleed block that is about the size and then put that between the pistons (so the pistons are sticking out more and the bleed block is narrower) the I bleed some more.  I also stress you just have the lever reach out quite far for a large hand to get a better bleed.  Once I get a firm feel with this, I remove the thin block, use a plastic tyre lever and gentled push the pistons back, quite slowly and gingerly.  I bleed with the normal bleed block and the brake feels hard usually.