Jewbacca Posted November 18, 2020 Share hahaha I'm not uitgekakking anyone. Plem-Plem just came across as a bit moany and 'thou shalt not dictate' to me, but his reply to me makes sense. The tone comes across differently there. I do think that as things develop, one does need to start looking past basic metrics like weight, and consider other things that removing/moving stress points allows the manufacturer to do. I see it as being similar to suspension design. 100mm of travel is not equal. One needs to look at rearward travel, stroke progression, pivot placement etc to really explore which option works best for you. I don't buy into the 'braking' being the main talking point. The knock on effect is huge. Delam of carbon rim surfaces, warranty voids for using 'the wrong pads', gauges in rim surfaces from debris or a misaligned pad etc also influence the overall usability. IMHO it makes disc brakes more friendly to the weekend plonker as he can have one set of wheels and not worry about wearing them out and still be sure he isn't in violation of some sub section small print sentence that voids his warranty. But mostly, at our level, it comes down to aesthetics and what makes you moist. I get moist looking at Savages 'Dale, but I would buy my own bike again if I had to. I think Savages is 'better' than mine, but meh.... gummibear and Pure Savage 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Boss Posted November 18, 2020 Share This is one of those seriously amazing hib threads..... I cant beleive the discussion is still carrying on 8 pages later. Anyone who honestly wants to argue about whether or not disc brakes are better than rim brakes, probably also still uses a 3310, because its just as good at making phone calls as the latest iPhone. Sure, rim brakes are probably mostly sufficient on road bikes, but there is still no way they could ever better than disks. Discs will become the norm. Im surprised it took this long Danger Dassie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gummibear Posted November 18, 2020 Share Anyone who honestly wants to argue about whether or not disc brakes are better than rim brakes, probably also still uses a 3310, because its just as good at making phone calls as the latest iPhone. I have tried road discs and don't like them but using a iPhone 12.Where do i fit in then T_Boss and Danger Dassie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 18, 2020 Share hahaha I'm not uitgekakking anyone. Plem-Plem just came across as a bit moany and 'thou shalt not dictate' to me, but his reply to me makes sense. The tone comes across differently there. I do think that as things develop, one does need to start looking past basic metrics like weight, and consider other things that removing/moving stress points allows the manufacturer to do. I see it as being similar to suspension design. 100mm of travel is not equal. One needs to look at rearward travel, stroke progression, pivot placement etc to really explore which option works best for you. I don't buy into the 'braking' being the main talking point. The knock on effect is huge. Delam of carbon rim surfaces, warranty voids for using 'the wrong pads', gauges in rim surfaces from debris or a misaligned pad etc also influence the overall usability. IMHO it makes disc brakes more friendly to the weekend plonker as he can have one set of wheels and not worry about wearing them out and still be sure he isn't in violation of some sub section small print sentence that voids his warranty. But mostly, at our level, it comes down to aesthetics and what makes you moist. I get moist looking at Savages 'Dale, but I would buy my own bike again if I had to. I think Savages is 'better' than mine, but meh.... Jirrrrrre, that some moan about okes moaning.... TNT1, Pure Savage and Jewbacca 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT1 Posted November 18, 2020 Share This is one of those seriously amazing hib threads..... I cant beleive the discussion is still carrying on 8 pages later. Anyone who honestly wants to argue about whether or not disc brakes are better than rim brakes, probably also still uses a 3310, because its just as good at making phone calls as the latest iPhone. Sure, rim brakes are probably mostly sufficient on road bikes, but there is still no way they could ever better than disks. Discs will become the norm. Im surprised it took this long The discussion goes on because people like you make categorical statements with no factual base. gummibear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted November 18, 2020 Share My brieke while touring in them Alps. Moertoe.And I do not live in the foothills of the Alps.Nor do I train in the wet or sleet as often as my northern hemisphere friends. T_Boss, gummibear, Danger Dassie and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Boss Posted November 18, 2020 Share The discussion goes on because people like you make categorical statements with no factual base. The only on topic statement I made, is that Disc brakes are superior technology - I will stand by that statement. The post was generally meant to be tongue in cheek though. But, now I will make some categorical statements: 1. Manufacturers are not going to be pushing a more expensesive, more complex system, if there werent actual benefits to it. They are not in the business of making bikes worse. 2. Carbon rims using rim brakes are useless in the wet 3. Allu rims using rim brakes are mostly useless in the wet 4. Disk Brakes solve 2 and 3 5. Extended use in less than optimal conditions puts serious wear on carbon rims. Dirt and grim getting between the pads and the rim will destroy it. 6. Replacing break rotors is cheaper than replacing wheels 7. The mounting of disk calipers on the back side of a fork leg, is far superion to mounting a cantiliver brake to the front of the fork. This allows forks to be made lighter and more flexible in the places where it matter. 8. The technology is here to stay, and it will eventually replace rim brakes on pretty much all top end bikes. 9. Resistance is futile 10. Bike manufacturers have nothing to gain from introducing a critical safety technology that is worse than the system it is replacing. 11. Hydrolic disk brakes need less force to be applies, which is a major advantage on long days. Tired fingers on a long, winding descent at the end of 6 hour day, might appreciate that TheoG, Heinrich Hattingh and Danger Dassie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veebee Posted November 18, 2020 Share Mostly useless in the wet ? I think you wrong... I live in Kloof, where the roads are up and down everywhere. I ride carbon wheels on 2 bikes, and Alu on old bike, never came off and never had issues where I couldn't stop in time, have done a few rides in the rain. Rims and brake pad technology have improved in recent years, so unless you have tried it in recent months you cant really compare based on 10 year old stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoG Posted November 18, 2020 Share My brieke while touring in them Alps. Moertoe.And I do not live in the foothills of the Alps.Nor do I train in the wet or sleet as often as my northern hemisphere friends. IMG_2081.jpg I think you need some disc brakes . 'Dale and Patchelicious 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 18, 2020 Share Mostly useless in the wet ? I think you wrong... I live in Kloof, where the roads are up and down everywhere. I ride carbon wheels on 2 bikes, and Alu on old bike, never came off and never had issues where I couldn't stop in time, have done a few rides in the rain. Rims and brake pad technology have improved in recent years, so unless you have tried it in recent months you cant really compare based on 10 year old stuff.I rode my rim Bora 50 wheels, with SwissStop pads with Campy SR brakes within days of Dura Ace discs, and from my experience the discs were MUCH better in the wet, marginally more predictive in the dry. If your carbon rims are stopping you adequately, you aren't going fast enough If the rim bike was as good as the disc bike, I would not have changed, as I much prefer the idea, looks and self service of rim brakes. Never nice going from Campy to Shimano.... DISCLAMIER: Its personal experience. Edited November 18, 2020 by Patchelicious TheoG, Veebee and Danger Dassie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokman Posted November 18, 2020 Share Call me a Luddite, but the one thing on my second hand road bike that I have never had to work on in about 9 years are my brakes. I turn the screw thing on the cable tighter about once a year and I may need new rubber pads sometime. That's it for a weekend warrior that rides the normal races around Jo'burg. Now guess what part on my two MTB's has caused me the most headaches and frustration . It took three bike shops six tries to sort out a small leak on a cable that I eventually noticed.The owner or mechanic brings the bike out with a satisfied grin. Pulls the lever ,"There you go ,all well. Thank you ,bye bye . And forty minutes into the ride ,no brakes.Oil on the rotors oil, on the discs.......And like a seasoned fridge mechanic, "Just keep an eye on it , it should be all right ."Racing snakes and wannabees and okes who like new tech , go for it . Me, I'll stick with rim brakes. Patchelicious and PlemPlem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheoG Posted November 18, 2020 Share Call me a Luddite, but the one thing on my second hand road bike that I have never had to work on in about 9 years are my brakes. I turn the screw thing on the cable tighter about once a year and I may need new rubber pads sometime. That's it for a weekend warrior that rides the normal races around Jo'burg. Now guess what part on my two MTB's has caused me the most headaches and frustration . It took three bike shops six tries to sort out a small leak on a cable that I eventually noticed.The owner or mechanic brings the bike out with a satisfied grin. Pulls the lever ,"There you go ,all well. Thank you ,bye bye . And forty minutes into the ride ,no brakes.Oil on the rotors oil, on the discs.......And like a seasoned fridge mechanic, "Just keep an eye on it , it should be all right ."Racing snakes and wannabees and okes who like new tech , go for it . Me, I'll stick with rim brakes. You must be seriously unlucky. I'm using disc brakes on MTB for many years without a single issue. Only thing is to replace pads, and that also last a decent time. Danger Dassie and T_Boss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 18, 2020 Share v-brakes are so retro they are cool again. Saw a dude riding a old Dale' F3000 the other day, he was the bees knees amongst his troop. ChrisF and Danger Dassie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_ Posted November 18, 2020 Share v-brakes are so retro they are cool again. Saw a dude riding a old Dale' F3000 the other day, he was the bees knees amongst his troop.Sis. How will he ever stop?! Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veebee Posted November 18, 2020 Share I rode my rim Bora 50 wheels, with SwissStop pads with Campy SR brakes within days of Dura Ace discs, and from my experience the discs were MUCH better in the wet, marginally more predictive in the dry. If your carbon rims are stopping you adequately, you aren't going fast enough If the rim bike was as good as the disc bike, I would not have changed, as I much prefer the idea, looks and self service of rim brakes. Never nice going from Campy to Shimano.... DISCLAMIER: Its personal experience. No doubt discs will be better, I am not one of those guys... But just dont agree that braking on Alu wheels in the wet is "mostly useless" Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted November 18, 2020 Share No doubt discs will be better, I am not one of those guys... But just dont agree that braking on Alu wheels in the wet is "mostly useless"Absolutely not, plenty good enough, in my opinion. Veebee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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