Advice needed For Post Bike Sale

[FreeSoul]

I would like some constructive feedback on the following bike sale and subsequent events that transpired. I am not including names as I am only looking for opinions on what the correct course of corrective action should be by the seller.

 

Apologies for the length but wanted as much context and truth as possible.

 

1. Contact seller via WhatsApp on the 08/01/2021 asking about an ad I saw for a road bike. The seller has multiple bikes on advertise as well as a solid history of sales. He is more than likely a dealer of sorts. The bike was R60k and was advertised as absolute mint.
2. Bit of negotiating and requesting more pics happened through the course of the day. Seller was unwilling to budge on price so I paid full asking as well as R600 shipping to JHB. Payment done on the 09/01/2021.
3. Bike was boxed and sent on the 11/01/2021.
4. Bike arrived at my premise on the 13/01/2021.
5. Unpacked bike that was meticulously protected which I was stoked about. Went about putting seat post in place, re-attaching cockpit and slapping on some pedals. Bike looked great, so I plugged in the Di2 to charge and waited in anticipation for Saturday’s roll.
6. Saturday arrived, grabbed the bike and headed out to the cradle to meet my team for its maiden voyage.
7. Rode up the first rise (1km)  then started shifting to biggest great for decent. Heard a weird grinding sound coming from the RD. Stopped too check what’s going on as I have never heard this sound before (I have a TT bike with the same Di2).
8. At this point in time, I start fiddling with the shifters, but no matter what I do, It's stuck in the same gear and the grinding sound continues.
9. I check the front FD in case something is off and causing the issue. To my surprise I notice a crack on the side of the motor mechanism. Ride over for the day so I pack up and head home.
10. I message seller on the way home (15/01/2021) stating what I have observed on the FD and that the RD is stuck. I am obviously pretty pissed off that the FD is cracked as this wasn’t brought to my attention during the sale.
11. Get home, plug Di2 it into e-tube to try and triage the RD issues. No luck. Give up and wait for Monday to take bike to LBS. Seller phones me and says he will source a new FD to replace the cracked one. Not ideal, but ok, I am willing to take that.
12. Take bike to LBS 18/01/2021 and ask for help with the RD. He calls me a hour later stating the RD is completely shot and the damage is more than likely due to an impact. Obviously not great news and I am starting to getting pretty worked up.
13. Contact seller again informing him of the report from the LBS. His response is “it's very strange, the bike was ridden before it got boxed and the gears were working perfect”. He said he needs to reach out to someone else who I assume was the person he is dealing on behalf off.
14. A few minutes later I get a call from this individual. Never dealt with him at all but regardless, I explain the last few days events. He seems ok and hangs up.
15. At this point, I have lost faith in the bike and seller as my gut is telling me it’s been involved in a crash of sort’s.  I politely inform seller of my opinion and request a full refund. I tell him my LBS will box the bike and send back and he can get the new parts and re-advertise when happy.
16. I get the following message back “Hi, there's nothing wrong with the bike and everything was working when I boxed the bike. We learned now that the Front and Rear Derailleur is not working and are willing to replace that for you with like for like parts or we are willing to pay secondhand market value of what you claimed to me damaged and then just send us back the damaged parts please.”
17. Not response I was looking for, however, I ask how long this will take as I am not prepared to wait weeks. This was yesterday at 13:23 pm.
18. No response. While I wait, I go have a look at all the additional pics he sent me via WhatsApp as he kept insinuating the bike was 100% when he boxed it. I find a pic of the FD and upon zooming in, you can clearly see the crack. I send a series of pics to him proving the crack was done pre send. This was at 15:33. No response.
19. I ping him again at 18:22 asking if he saw the about. Still, no response.

 

I would like a full refund but it seems he isn't too keen on that option which I think is a little unfair.

 

Thanks

 

LATEST: 21/01/2021

 

None has stock of the components and is refusing to purchase NEW parts anyway. He said, "second hand market value only". In his mind, it's fine for me to just wait in perpetuity. Have asked MANY times about a refund and he refuses to entertain it. So as it stands, I am R60k out and have a broken bike.

 

Lost for words.

 

Oh, and refuses to take my calls.

 

LATEST: 02/02/2012

 

So I just got my bike back from the shop after they finally replaced the RD at my cost (seller will only give me a portion back when the broken RD is received in his care and he has looked at it). 

 

The bike has been with them since it broke on the Saturday. I had booked a setup so off I went expecting this saga to be behind me. Low and behold, during the setup, I noticed the crank length was 175cm and NOT the 172.5 as stated on the WhatsApp conversations we had. I explicitly asked about this and he confirmed.

 

What the actual fark!

 

LATEST: 03/02/2020

 

Seller has now reneged on his word and has refused to provide any compensation for both the RD and the FD and has offered only to pay for the cranks at a price of R2500. I enquired about the cost of the mechanic to which he responded, it must come out of the R2500.

 

Also, he said if I have a problem with the above, I must contact his lawyer.

 

LATEST: 04/02/2020

 

Seller has refused to budge. As it stands:

 

1. He refuses to give me a compensation for either the RD or the FD even though I sent the original RD back. The agreement as per WhattsApp was that he would pay me as soon as the RD arrived. He has since changed his mind.
2. He will only give me money for the Crank once he receives the current one back (sound familiar?) This means I have to again take it to my LBS to get someone to remove the crank so it can be sent. I them have to hope he pays me so I can find a replacement then take it back to the LBS for for fitting.

 

I am done with his crap. Below are his details:

 

Name: Rikus Smit - Based in Durbanville Western Cape.

Profile Link: https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/profile/140968

FB: https://www.facebook.com/rikus.smit.3

Edited February 4, 2021 by FreeSoul

[Rock Guy]

The crack on the FD visible in the sale pics really is a bit of a smoking gun. The seller should offer you a full refund and pay for the return shipping costs. 

 

In my opinion, this counts as either negligence on the seller's part, or just plain sneakiness. The seller really shouldn't argue with you.

 

Edit: I wouldn't feel comfortable riding a bike that was supposed to be "absolute mint", only to discover clear faults upon riding. There are probably other issues with the bike as well, hence why a full refund is the only correct outcome here.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Rock Guy

[TNT1]

I'm confused. 

 

A crash would result in visible damage (scrapes) on the RD at least.

 

The Seller seems to be prepared to replace the items.

 

What more do you want? 

[TNT1]

The crack on the FD visible in the sale pics really is a bit of a smoking gun. The seller should offer you a full refund and pay for the return shipping costs. 

 

in my opinion, this counts as either negligence on the seller's part, or just plain sneakiness. The seller really shouldn't argue with you.

The seller is under no obligation to do that, and offered to replace the FD?

[FreeSoul]

The seller is under no obligation to do that, and offered to replace the FD?

 

Due diligence was NOT done by seller. He would / should have seen the crack on the FD. This only tells me he did not check out the bike properly to ensure its mechanical sound! If the FD was the only issue, I would say cool, but the fact the RD is also stuffed does not bode well with my confidence.

[Rock Guy]

The seller is under no obligation to do that, and offered to replace the FD?

 

Full refund would be the right thing to do. If the derailleur is visibly cracked in the pics the seller used to sell the bike, surely the seller was lying to the buyer when he said the bike was "absolute mint". Either the seller didn't inspect the bike properly and just said this to get a sale, or he knew about the issue and still said this to get the sale. Either way, stating the bike was in prefect condition was untruthful.

 

If the seller fully believes the bike is fine, and is willing to replace the parts, then he can sell that bike to someone else easily. On the other hand, how do you expect FreeSoul to trust the bike? How did the crack happen?? Is there other damage hidden? Maybe there are no scratch marks on the FD because the seller took the time and effort to hide them? Perhaps there are hidden scratches and cracks on the frame as well?

 

You see where this is going? The seller should offer a full refund even if his only interest is to protect is income (assuming he sells 2nd hand bikes for a living). If not, I feel the buyer is obliged to report the seller to Bikehub and inform the community to avoid buying from him. It is not about what the the seller's legal obligation is here, although I'd argue its in the buyer's favor. 

[TNT1]

Full refund would be the right thing to do. If the derailleur is visibly cracked in the pics the seller used to sell the bike, surely the seller was lying to the buyer when he said the bike was "absolute mint". Either the seller didn't inspect the bike properly and just said this to get a sale, or he knew about the issue and still said this to get the sale. Either way, stating the bike was in prefect condition was untruthful.

 

If the seller fully believes the bike is fine, and is willing to replace the parts, then he can sell that bike to someone else easily. On the other hand, how do you expect FreeSoul to trust the bike? How did the crack happen?? Is there other damage hidden? Maybe there are no scratch marks on the FD because the seller took the time and effort to hide them? Perhaps there are hidden scratches and cracks on the frame as well?

 

You see where this is going? The seller should offer a full refund even if his only interest is to protect is income (assuming he sells 2nd hand bikes for a living). If not, I feel the buyer is obliged to report the seller to Bikehub and inform the community to avoid buying from him. It is not about what the the seller's legal obligation is here, although I'd argue its in the buyer's favor. 

Voetstoots and school fees if you ask me.

Edited January 19, 2021 by TNT1

[FreeSoul]

Voetstoots and school fees if you ask me.

 

Do me a favour, stop making un-constructive and immature statements! This guy is a dealer so thankfully the Consumer Protection act allows for recourse. There is NO such thing as "Voetsoots" so jog on mate.

[DR ◣◢]

It's not even Friday yet.

 

Did you get a second opinion on what could have caused the damage to the derailleurs? 

[TNT1]

Do me a favour, stop making un-constructive and immature statements! This guy is a dealer so thankfully the Consumer Protection act allows for recourse. There is NO such thing as "Voetsoots" so jog on mate.

Ask advice from random strangers and get butthurt when you don't get blanket support for your pre-existing position. OK. I'll be jogging then. Good luck with your future legal battles.

[FreeSoul]

It's not even Friday yet.

 

Did you get a second opinion on what could have caused the damage to the derailleurs? 

No, this guy is the best in the business and extremely trusted. Remember, the FD was cracked BEFORE it was sent to me.

[Grease_Monkey]

Due diligence was NOT done by seller. He would / should have seen the crack on the FD. This only tells me he did not check out the bike properly to ensure its mechanical sound! If the FD was the only issue, I would say cool, but the fact the RD is also stuffed does not bode well with my confidence.

 

He sent you pics of the bike, you also did not see the crack which you now do see. Both of you missed it, although I agree the seller probably tried to hide it. Just take the replacement parts, although he should give you a full refund consider yourself lucky that he is willing to do anything at all. That's the unfortunate reality with 2nd hand purchases. If you can't inspect an item before buying you are taking a huge risk, especially with a high value item such as this.

 

EDIT: I see it is a dealer, not a private seller. Different story - full refund in order. If he doesn't comply then try get a lawyer friend or something to help you enforce the CPA.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Grease_Monkey

[DR ◣◢]

No, this guy is the best in the business and extremely trusted. Remember, the FD was cracked BEFORE it was sent to me.

 

Even the best in the business get things wrong. Get a second opinion. What do you have to lose? 

 

Imagine having a report from two of the best people in the business.

[Edereese]

If you like the bike, if you feel like you've gotten a good deal, take the replacement derailleurs and move on. I would suggest installing a bluetooth unit so you can monitor battery levels. I have just upgraded to di2 and it's awesome if setup correctly. Please keep in mind, even new components fail. The seller offered to assist you which is a pretty good deal. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

[Edereese]

No, this guy is the best in the business and extremely trusted. Remember, the FD was cracked BEFORE it was sent to me.

 

Get a second opinion, he will do what is best for his business. Try the rear derailleur on a different bike and see what happens. I am yet to meet a trusted bike mech, I only trust myself.

[Edereese]

Lastly, how sure are you the di2 is setup correctly wrt shift modes, indexing etc?

The reason I ask this is because mine made weird noises and movements too. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Edereese