Table Mountain, WTF??.

[marko35s]

8 minutes ago, MintSauce said:

One incident was Cork Tree. To my knowledge, it happened between SanParks announcing the effective date that it would open and the actual opening date, which were a few weeks apart.

Second incident happened on the Rhodes Mem singletrack, just left of the main entrance, shortly before it officially opened.

I think you may be getting your dates wrong here.

People were busted there around the start of June 2015 but the process was still very much running, I have the minutes from a meeting from 15 June 2015 that show that site visits were still to be completed and the public participation process had not even started.

Someone jumped the gun when they said the place was open for riding.

[MintSauce]

25 minutes ago, marko35s said:

I think you may be getting your dates wrong here.

People were busted there around the start of June 2015 but the process was still very much running, I have the minutes from a meeting from 15 June 2015 that show that site visits were still to be completed and the public participation process had not even started.

Someone jumped the gun when they said the place was open for riding.

 

That was what I was told at the time and it came from a very reputable source. A week or two after it opened, I was told that someone had been caught in the time-frame I mentioned and were being criminally charged with poaching. Does this sound like the same incident? (Serious question, I'm open to correction)

[marko35s]

17 minutes ago, MintSauce said:

 

That was what I was told at the time and it came from a very reputable source. A week or two after it opened, I was told that someone had been caught in the time-frame I mentioned and were being criminally charged with poaching. Does this sound like the same incident? (Serious question, I'm open to correction)

I'm pretty sure all the mess with people getting arrested etc started in 2015 and the trail was finally opened in 2016.

This thread may offer some clues - 

 

[OVERDRIVE]

On 5/26/2021 at 12:33 PM, Headshot said:

Quite so. The Dlamini incident has probably led to more aggressive behaviour from visitors towards rangers I suspect. 

Took the words right out my mouth. Violence either way is not the answer. 

[wolver]

On the topic of the SANParks Rangers responsibilities, they are laid out here (job spec below). Crime prevention and crime response IS their responsibility and is separate from compliance regulation (i.e. making sure riders stick to permitted trails). 

They are currently looking to hire 38 more rangers for TMNP..... At R190 a day???? 

Wish it wasn't the case but, but the reality is that I don't think we can expect anyone earning that salary to be effective at executing any job... never mind strategic crime prevention and response!

????SANPARKS????

 

Source: https://www.sanparks.org/about/jobs/default.php?id=58265

[DJR]

As far as I know SANParks Rangers NEVER carry firearms in Table Mountain National Park.

[Shebeen]

Not sure if this came up a few weeks ago. But here's some insight into the $$$$$ at TMNP. Short story, it costs R300k a day to run the place. None of us know where that money goes

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-03-07-show-us-the-money-from-our-mountain-sanparks/

 

[Vaultboy]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

Not sure if this came up a few weeks ago. But here's some insight into the $$$$$ at TMNP. Short story, it costs R300k a day to run the place. None of us know where that money goes

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-03-07-show-us-the-money-from-our-mountain-sanparks/

 

If you read the very annual financial statement cited in that DM article, you can see where the money goes. You will see that only 25% of their income is from government. The rest is self-generated, primarily by TMNP and KNP, which subsidises 20 other parks. almost 50% of that budget goes to salaries, which might seem like a lot, but they are severely understaffed. Think about it : TMNP is over 200km2, with probably over a thousand kilometers of road, trail and paths, almost all of which are open access apart from Cape Point and the Cableway. We never see any rangers because they don't have enough. Also, yes, they had over 200 million in irregular expenditure, but this was not 2000 televisions being bought that mysteriously disappeared, like in NorthWest (Education, i think?):  (page 49 of the report: 'Irregular expenditure assessed in the current financial year is attributable to two (2) legacy contracts making up 97% of irregular expenditure assessed in the current financial year. The two (2) legacy contracts, namely Roomseeker Systems and the Rhino Poaching Project, were awarded prior to the 2019/20 financial year. The Rhino Poaching Project was funded by the Nature Conservation Trust through the HGB Foundation. The remaining 3% relates to other irregular expenditure incurred as a result of non-compliance with procurement process requirements.'

People often jump on the Auditor General bandwagon expecting corruption and theft. The reality is that often procurement just takes too bloody long in government, and well-meaning officials just want to get stuff done. There are things they do that I don't like either, like bad faith public partication, but none of this stuff justifies stoning a ranger. I don't like how some of the farmers run the farms we ride on or where they decide we can or can't ride but hey, I'm not gonna stone them for it. 

[DJR]

There is no doubt than SANParks do a lot of good. There is a reason Kruger is one of the top 10 wildlife refuges on earth. I also know that they have many dedicated staff who has conservation of our natural environment as their number one goal.

But

In the way that they have taken over Table Mountain National Park from the City of Cape Town and the way they ran in ever since, I have very few compliments for them. The areas far away from the city and where they have full control, like Cape Point, I think they did well and I'll give credit for that, but in the open parts they have alienated Capetonians. They are happy to take our money and treat us like ****. At every turn they went out of their way to block public input and help. Trying to work with them is a frustration few can survive without giving up. Their burocratic way is the reason they are at war with those who traditionally looked after the mountain. As an example, the Mountain Club, who for more than a century cleaned the mountain and built and maintained footpaths and climbing routes, have basically stopped working with SANParks because it was made clear that they were unwelcome. Table Mountain is different from any of their other parks, it is open, surrounded by the city and millions of people. Despite them saying so, I don't think they really understand that it must be treated differently.

The first thing they need to do is to get Capetonians on board again! And that will only happen when they start listening to us, Cyclists, hikers, climbers, riders, gliders, botanists, conservationists, police, security companies, dogwalkers, even the Camps bay guy with his pet pig!

Edited May 28, 2021 by DJR

[MintSauce]

13 hours ago, marko35s said:

I'm pretty sure all the mess with people getting arrested etc started in 2015 and the trail was finally opened in 2016.

This thread may offer some clues - 

 

Thank you for the link. Clearly I did not visit the Hub regularly for many years. I actually did a quick Google search yesterday to try and verify the story, but did not do a Hub search. ????‍♂️

I scanned through it last night and was left with three take-aways:

1. My source either misrepresented the timeline or I mistook the intended meaning.

2. My opinion on SANParks' handling of the matter is unchanged.

3. In voicing said opinion yesterday, I was evidently flogging a horse the Hub had beaten to death in 2015.

 

 

[marko35s]

1 hour ago, MintSauce said:

Thank you for the link. Clearly I did not visit the Hub regularly for many years. I actually did a quick Google search yesterday to try and verify the story, but did not do a Hub search. ????‍♂️

I scanned through it last night and was left with three take-aways:

1. My source either misrepresented the timeline or I mistook the intended meaning.

2. My opinion on SANParks' handling of the matter is unchanged.

3. In voicing said opinion yesterday, I was evidently flogging a horse the Hub had beaten to death in 2015.

 

 

To be fair - 

1. I struggled to remember the timelines and I was in some of the meetings that led to the opening of the trails, so it's easy to get a bit confused over the when, where and what of the whole mess.

2. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

3. If there is one thing the hub does well it's flogging a very deceased horse.

[Headshot]

20 hours ago, TNT1 said:

Sure. It's all made up and cyclists and other users of these paths are blameless angels and the rangers are all dictators who are out to get them for no reason. 

 

My apologies. I'll retract anything I've said on it.

 

I assume you'll attend to the lies being printed in the media as well?

That's from 2019. I assume there are more made up stories in the press, but I'll leave you to put the authors and publications in their place, yeah?

 

Keep up the crusade.

You're a humorous fellow. Keep up your crusade, its the only one here. (*placing reliance on "journalism" like N24 to get the picture is like  believing the ANC is getting tough on corruption)

[MORNE]

????

[Headshot]

4 hours ago, DJR said:

There is no doubt than SANParks do a lot of good. There is a reason Kruger is one of the top 10 wildlife refuges on earth. I also know that they have many dedicated staff who has conservation of our natural environment as their number one goal.

But

In the way that they have taken over Table Mountain National Park from the City of Cape Town and the way they ran in ever since, I have very few compliments for them. The areas far away from the city and where they have full control, like Cape Point, I think they did well and I'll give credit for that, but in the open parts they have alienated Capetonians. They are happy to take our money and treat us like ****. At every turn they went out of their way to block public input and help. Trying to work with them is a frustration few can survive without giving up. Their burocratic way is the reason they are at war with those who traditionally looked after the mountain. As an example, the Mountain Club, who for more than a century cleaned the mountain and built and maintained footpaths and climbing routes, have basically stopped working with SANParks because it was made clear that they were unwelcome. Table Mountain is different from any of their other parks, it is open, surrounded by the city and millions of people. Despite them saying so, I don't think they really understand that it must be treated differently.

The first thing they need to do is to get Capetonians on board again! And that will only happen when they start listening to us, Cyclists, hikers, climbers, riders, gliders, botanists, conservationists, police, security companies, dogwalkers, even the Camps bay guy with his pet pig!

IMO - Unfortunately, the solution is going to be very hard to achieve. The issue is not that they don't listen. They do, but then proposals are ignored and nothing happens. The reason is that as it is structured, SANP is not really capable of swift decisive action or practical concrete actions that would not only generate revenue but goodwill as well. SANP is not geared at running a large urban park like TMNP. They want to run it like a game park and the solution requires them not to run it like that for the most part.

[Duane_Bosch]

22 hours ago, Vaultboy said:

So often we see reminder about how we, as MTBers, need to be respectful of the landowners whose properties we ride on, that riding there is a privilege and not a right, even though we pay for that access, etc. The same thing applies to conservation agencies. We need to remember that their primary business is not recreation - it is conservation. Our access is a privilege, even though we pay for it (through taxes and/or permits). 

I don't want to derail this thread with technicalities coz causing harm someone who is merely doing their job is pretty disgusting. 

 

But to be clear. We as citizens of this country are the land owners. Not Sanparks. And more specifically TMNP is owned by us the citizens of Cape Town. Sanpark's business is extracting money from a resource that they do not own. Their mandate might be conservation but they are APPALING at it.

[Kranswurm]

6 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I don't want to derail this thread with technicalities coz causing harm someone who is merely doing their job is pretty disgusting. 

 

But to be clear. We as citizens of this country are the land owners. Not Sanparks. And more specifically TMNP is owned by us the citizens of Cape Town. Sanpark's business is extracting money from a resource that they do not own. Their mandate might be conservation but they are APPALING at it.

TMNP is not owned by "us"

What a ridiculous concept