Buyers Advice on Classified Ads

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

12 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

Strange, maybe the mods don't like you. I proactively look for "resellers" trying to beat the system and my reports have been successful. 

Quite possible. Maybe you're lucky, here's one to try out:

 

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/profile/177811

 

Regardless, I think the hub website itself is looking good and if you look past a handful of bad eggs I've met lots of good people on here, so it's still a win.

[sirmoun10goat]

19 hours ago, Wayne pudding Mol said:

The word bullying is bandied about far too freely these days

 

I thought this was an issue in developed countries where people have nothing to complain about, so instead look for things to complain about. Here in Canada you don't abbreviate a person's name, you don't compliment a person (they suggests there is something 'wrong' elsewhere), you don't make jokes/use sarcasm...these things are viewed as micro-bullying.

But this seems to be a global issue.

What does surprise me is that people are happy to watch movies in which people are bullied/marginalized/victimized/whatever, but that's okay, it's just a movie. 

But the web is viewed as an extension of real life, so you have to watch what you say on the web, even though most people are using nick names and random pictures for their avatars, and the real in person connections/meet ups with people here are actually very seldom.

The world needs to HTFU, I want to call a spade a spade. But the world submits to the minority, not the masses. If someone takes offense to me calling them out for an obscene asking price for a bike, the problem is not with me.

Everyone loves to have a go at Specialized each time they launch a new S-Works. People ask what are they smoking, they are crazy, they have lost the plot, buying a motorbike is better, etc. Does Specialized feel bullied/marginalized/victimized/whatever? Is admin going to shut down 'bike release; threads where people have a rant about the price of the bike? I somehow doubt this.

[ACE Cycles]

1 hour ago, sirmoun10goat said:

I thought this was an issue in developed countries where people have nothing to complain about, so instead look for things to complain about. Here in Canada you don't abbreviate a person's name, you don't compliment a person (they suggests there is something 'wrong' elsewhere), you don't make jokes/use sarcasm...these things are viewed as micro-bullying.

But this seems to be a global issue.

What does surprise me is that people are happy to watch movies in which people are bullied/marginalized/victimized/whatever, but that's okay, it's just a movie. 

But the web is viewed as an extension of real life, so you have to watch what you say on the web, even though most people are using nick names and random pictures for their avatars, and the real in person connections/meet ups with people here are actually very seldom.

The world needs to HTFU, I want to call a spade a spade. But the world submits to the minority, not the masses. If someone takes offense to me calling them out for an obscene asking price for a bike, the problem is not with me.

Everyone loves to have a go at Specialized each time they launch a new S-Works. People ask what are they smoking, they are crazy, they have lost the plot, buying a motorbike is better, etc. Does Specialized feel bullied/marginalized/victimized/whatever? Is admin going to shut down 'bike release; threads where people have a rant about the price of the bike? I somehow doubt this.

I agree with your post.

What would you suggest that admin do in the following scenario:

A dealer, that spends thousands a month advertising on bikehub.co.za, gets his ad ridiculed by a mob of free-use members in a thread? 

Edit: The dealer users his real name or business name whereas the mob hide behind aliases 

Edited June 15, 2022 by ACE Cycles

[ACE Cycles]

9 hours ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Quite possible. Maybe you're lucky, here's one to try out:

 

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/profile/177811

 

Regardless, I think the hub website itself is looking good and if you look past a handful of bad eggs I've met lots of good people on here, so it's still a win.

I'll check when he posts an ad 🤔

[sirmoun10goat]

22 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

I agree with your post.

What would you suggest that admin do in the following scenario:

A dealer, that spends thousands a month advertising on bikehub.co.za, gets his ad ridiculed by a mob of free-use members in a thread? 

Edit: The dealer users his real name or business name whereas the mob hide behind aliases 

Well if it is truly a mob, then action can and should be taken against the people making up this mob. There used to be penalty points, not sure if that is still the case.

Another point is some dealers (not @ACE Cycles per say), who truly deserve the ridicule. No matter how much is spent by these dealers on advertising, this does not give them the right to misrepresent their adverts or to charge prices that are out of line to unsuspecting targets. Unlike cars where there are second hand dealers everywhere, even the less informed can do small bit of legwork and see if the price is fair. Bikes, in their lower volumes and untold number of specifications are harder to price, so a platform where people can discuss these situations is hugely beneficial.

As much as we can report suspicious ads, won't it make senses to have an option to report discriminant users? Click 'report user', select 'targeting mu adverts' and then admin can start building a profile of complaints against these users

Shutting stuff down is not the answer.

[ACE Cycles]

3 minutes ago, sirmoun10goat said:

Well if it is truly a mob, then action can and should be taken against the people making up this mob. There used to be penalty points, not sure if that is still the case.

Another point is some dealers (not @ACE Cycles per say), who truly deserve the ridicule. No matter how much is spent by these dealers on advertising, this does not give them the right to misrepresent their adverts or to charge prices that are out of line to unsuspecting targets. Unlike cars where there are second hand dealers everywhere, even the less informed can do small bit of legwork and see if the price is fair. Bikes, in their lower volumes and untold number of specifications are harder to price, so a platform where people can discuss these situations is hugely beneficial.

As much as we can report suspicious ads, won't it make senses to have an option to report discriminant users? Click 'report user', select 'targeting mu adverts' and then admin can start building a profile of complaints against these users

Shutting stuff down is not the answer.

In a free market, such as ours, people can charge what they want. In my experience, people can advertise for any amount, but people are generally not idiots and in the end the items will sell for a market related price anyway. When anyone misrepresents their ad, then the report function takes care of that, I've seen it work first hand. 

Most of my clients spend a great deal of time discussing their purchases with riding buddies before making a commitment, often bringing their buddies along to view the bike. 

[porqui]

4 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

In a free market, such as ours, people can charge what they want. In my experience, people can advertise for any amount, but people are generally not idiots and in the end the items will sell for a market related price anyway. When anyone misrepresents their ad, then the report function takes care of that, I've seen it work first hand. 

Most of my clients spend a great deal of time discussing their purchases with riding buddies before making a commitment, often bringing their buddies along to view the bike. 

Do not agree with you.

It's called ripping people off.

I believe in fair deal setup fair price for both seller and buyer - that was really what the ethos was about for the classifieds. It has now become a commercial venture - fair enough not my forum.

But now you have the middle man who exploits both the seller (low price) and also the buyer (high price) and some make a killing for doing what ???

It was initially clearly stated that the intention was a win/win situation for the cycling community.

For it to be viable you need "foot traffic" which is what the forum brought but I suspect the numbers are falling.

[ACE Cycles]

1 minute ago, porqui said:

Do not agree with you.

It's called ripping people off.

I believe in fair deal setup fair price for both seller and buyer - that was really what the ethos was about for the classifieds. It has now become a commercial venture - fair enough not my forum.

But now you have the middle man who exploits both the seller (low price) and also the buyer (high price) and some make a killing for doing what ???

It was initially clearly stated that the intention was a win/win situation for the cycling community.

For it to be viable you need "foot traffic" which is what the forum brought but I suspect the numbers are falling.

The point of my post was that although people might advertise at a ludicrous price, they would hardly, or ever, actually sell for that price. 

Like I said, buyers aren't idiots and will always do their own research as well as seek advice from their riding buddies. 

Exploitation? Nobody is getting forced to buy or sell at any given price. Here is how sellers win, they often don't want to go through the hassle of selling a bike, they want quick, reliable payment, most often to fund their next bike. They have a good Idea of what they're bike is worth and if they receive a reasonable offer, they accept. Here is how the buyer wins, he gets a warranty on a used bike, after sales assistance, peace of mind and a safe, reliable transaction with various payment facilities, finance options or trade ins.. Win win

Making a killing? The cycling industry is extremely competitive, margins are relatively low, single digits often, maybe up to 30% on a new bike. Most industries make a ton more than that. It's called capitalism

[sirmoun10goat]

I do believe BikeHub is a forum, but to an extent run like a classified. I don't see how it can be both.

It must either be  a forum where community discussion of items being sold is allowed, or it must be a classified without any discussion forums. A report button is no substitute for discussion.

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, porqui said:

For it to be viable you need "foot traffic" which is what the forum brought but I suspect the numbers are falling.

Just to get the facts straight on this point of speculation, the Classifieds have been the biggest driver of “foot traffic” on Bike Hub for the better part of 14 years. The forums undoubtedly brought in the users in the early days, but it was our Buy & sell forum that soon became the breadwinner in terms of generating traffic. The early rise of Buy and sell forum activity is was spurred Bike Hub (then The Hub SA) into becoming a full time job and proper commercial venture. Without that it would very likely not exist today.

Forum traffic (I.e. non-classifieds) and activity has steadily declined over the years with the the rise of of social media and other platforms that allow cyclists to connect and share. Classifieds on the other hand has continued to steadily grow.

[porqui]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Just to get the facts straight on this point of speculation, the Classifieds have been the biggest driver of “foot traffic” on Bike Hub for the better part of 14 years. The forums undoubtedly brought in the users in the early days, but it was our Buy & sell forum that soon became the breadwinner in terms of generating traffic. The early rise of Buy and sell forum activity is was spurred Bike Hub (then The Hub SA) into becoming a full time job and proper commercial venture. Without that it would very likely not exist today.

Forum traffic (I.e. non-classifieds) and activity has steadily declined over the years with the the rise of of social media and other platforms that allow cyclists to connect and share. Classifieds on the other hand has continued to steadily grow.

 

Fair enough !

 

And yes it is a full time job and an income has to be generated.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by porqui

[Hairy]

33 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

The point of my post was that although people might advertise at a ludicrous price, they would hardly, or ever, actually sell for that price. 

Like I said, buyers aren't idiots and will always do their own research as well as seek advice from their riding buddies. 

Exploitation? Nobody is getting forced to buy or sell at any given price. Here is how sellers win, they often don't want to go through the hassle of selling a bike, they want quick, reliable payment, most often to fund their next bike. They have a good Idea of what they're bike is worth and if they receive a reasonable offer, they accept. Here is how the buyer wins, he gets a warranty on a used bike, after sales assistance, peace of mind and a safe, reliable transaction with various payment facilities, finance options or trade ins.. Win win

Making a killing? The cycling industry is extremely competitive, margins are relatively low, single digits often, maybe up to 30% on a new bike. Most industries make a ton more than that. It's called capitalism

Sure ...............

2019 second hand bike, with wear and tear, down graded tyres and who knows what.

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/560369/pre-owned-specialized-chisel-l-bm7306

Brand New with better drivetrain and no wear and tear, full warranty for exactly the same price?

Where is the value added to the sale for the buyer.

https://www.specialized.com/za/en/chisel/p/184106?color=291540-184106

[Hairy]

@ACE CyclesI was wanting to keep out of this thread as a commenter, but I suggest you go chat to your fellow dealers in the classifieds as they are giving your trade a bad name, or just taking advantage of people.

Oh, 30% on a sale is decent profit margin, I compare this to professional trades that can not call on such large profit margins in any way.

[ACE Cycles]

3 minutes ago, Hairy said:

Sure ...............

2019 second hand bike, with wear and tear, down graded tyres and who knows what.

https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/item/hardtail-mountain-bikes/560369/pre-owned-specialized-chisel-l-bm7306

Brand New with better drivetrain and no wear and tear, full warranty for exactly the same price?

Where is the value added to the sale for the buyer.

https://www.specialized.com/za/en/chisel/p/184106?color=291540-184106

Like I explained in my posts above, advertised price does not indicate what the bike will sell for eventually. People do their own research before spending money, and just like you, they will get all the info they need to make an informed decision. 

[Hairy]

1 minute ago, ACE Cycles said:

Like I explained in my posts above, advertised price does not indicate what the bike will sell for eventually. People do their own research before spending money, and just like you, they will get all the info they need to make an informed decision. 

Nope, you are wrong. I speak from experience.

Just to understand, are you agreeing with a used older model bike with a lesser spec being advertised for the same price as a brand new one with better spec?

Not following the logic here?

[ACE Cycles]

4 minutes ago, Hairy said:

@ACE CyclesI was wanting to keep out of this thread as a commenter, but I suggest you go chat to your fellow dealers in the classifieds as they are giving your trade a bad name, or just taking advantage of people.

Oh, 30% on a sale is decent profit margin, I compare this to professional trades that can not call on such large profit margins in any way.

I'd love to see some examples of people that get taken advantage of, or do you only speculate? 

30% maybe, on a new bike, as stated above. Unfortunately I sell used bikes...