Loadshedding solutions

[Pure Savage]

2 minutes ago, TheoG said:

I would love to have enough batteries to store all the sun I can catch on a max sun day in summer.  I calculated for me that would be about 24 KWh.  Unfortunately that would mean spending a lot extra 🙈.

imho, you can never have too much battery storage, you never know when you will be hit by more than 3 rainy days in a row and also long power outages.  Normal load-shed is a non-issue for me, but our failing infrastructure in Alberton is a major issue.

I am trying to work out at what price per unit feeding back in would actually be worth it if have to spend R6k no a new 2 water meter.

 

[The Ouzo]

3 minutes ago, TheoG said:

failing infrastructure in Alberton is a major issue.

not just Alberton unfortunately.  

[dave303e]

2 hours ago, Pure Savage said:

Install complete on Friday and away we go! The relief of not having to look at that Eskom se push app is amazing. 

Took the advice from here and got it setup 100% like wanted.

First day of full use was a good test as Cape Town had rain and cloud cover all day, we still got batteries to 100%, heated the extra geyser and cooked on the stove. We only got down to 30% battery after that (10.6kwh 100%).

 

Yesterday first full day in the sun, carrying on as normal was perfect. After dinner etc this morning we were on 55%. So looking good for winter

looks good, I am sure you are going to be very happy with it

[Johnny82]

18 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

I am trying to work out at what price per unit feeding back in would actually be worth it if have to spend R6k no a new 2 water meter.

 

So, according to the current CoCT tariff schedules the following would apply:

You need to install a 2 way meter (costs vary depending on who you speak to, the CoCT schedules have a rate of R12 850 but through a private supplier and installer it might be cheaper) and then you have to pay a monthly "AMI access fee" of R96.20. Refer to https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Financial documents/Ann6_2022-23_EnergyGenerationandDistribution-Miscellaneous.pdf (item 8.12)

Then, when the City starts paying residential users, they will pay you back 90.83c + 28.75c (incentive fee) per unit you feed back. Refer to https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Financial documents/Electricity Consumptive Tariffs.pdf (on page 1). Just remember that the incentive fee is indicated only till June 2025.

 

In short, you need to feed back +- 100units per month just to cover the AMI fee, before you then start "paying off" your meter fee. For most residential installations this will most likely not be possible, especially during Cape Town winter time as you will only feed back extra power that your house does not use and after your batteries are fully charged. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Johnny82
Made a correction

[-cK-]

15 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

I am trying to work out at what price per unit feeding back in would actually be worth it if have to spend R6k no a new 2 water meter.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Johnny82 said:

So, according to the current CoCT tariff schedules the following would apply:

You need to install a 2 way meter (costs vary depending on who you speak to, the CoCT schedules have a rate of R12 850 but through a private supplier and installer it might be cheaper) and then you have to pay a monthly "AMI access fee" of R96.20. Refer to https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Financial documents/Ann6_2022-23_EnergyGenerationandDistribution-Miscellaneous.pdf (item 8.12)

Then, when the City starts paying residential users, they will pay you back 90.83c + 28.75c (incentive fee) per unit you feed back. Refer to https://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Financial documents/Electricity Consumptive Tariffs.pdf (on page 1). Just remember that the incentive fee can be removed at some point.

 

In short, you need to feed back +- 100units per month just to cover the AMI fee, before you then start "paying off" your meter fee. For most residential installations this will most likely not be possible, especially during Cape Town winter time as you will only feed back extra power that your house does not use and after your batteries are fully charged. 

They could rather subsidize the meter with a contract that your first sell back credit goes toward paying off the meter and lift the monthly fee BS.  Then after the meter is paid off you can get credit on your account towards your other monthly levies.

[-cK-]

24 minutes ago, Johnny82 said:

In short, you need to feed back +- 100units per month just to cover the AMI fee, before you then start "paying off" your meter fee. For most residential installations this will most likely not be possible, especially during Cape Town winter time as you will only feed back extra power that your house does not use and after your batteries are fully charged. 

Rough estimate on my current settings and profile I would technically only be able to feedback power between 11:00-12:00 and then again 15:00/16:00 - 18:00 depending on sunlight conditions so 2-3hrs max per day and that will be maybe 1000-1500w per hour so yea never gonna get close to making sense on that business model, not even when I upgrade.  Kinda make more sense now looking at it this way why my installer said they don't do those type of installs as it isn't even close to economically viable for most people to considering it.

[samson99]

3 hours ago, Pure Savage said:

Install complete on Friday and away we go! The relief of not having to look at that Eskom se push app is amazing. 

Took the advice from here and got it setup 100% like wanted.

First day of full use was a good test as Cape Town had rain and cloud cover all day, we still got batteries to 100%, heated the extra geyser and cooked on the stove. We only got down to 30% battery after that (10.6kwh 100%).

 

Yesterday first full day in the sun, carrying on as normal was perfect. After dinner etc this morning we were on 55%. So looking good for winter

Looks very smart.

Out of curiousity, what did this cost all in (including installation) if i may ask? you welcome to DM if better

[Pure Savage]

12 minutes ago, samson99 said:

Looks very smart.

Out of curiousity, what did this cost all in (including installation) if i may ask? you welcome to DM if better

About the same as the SL7 that is still sitting in the classifieds.

[Pure Savage]

23 minutes ago, -cK- said:

Rough estimate on my current settings and profile I would technically only be able to feedback power between 11:00-12:00 and then again 15:00/16:00 - 18:00 depending on sunlight conditions so 2-3hrs max per day and that will be maybe 1000-1500w per hour so yea never gonna get close to making sense on that business model, not even when I upgrade.  Kinda make more sense now looking at it this way why my installer said they don't do those type of installs as it isn't even close to economically viable for most people to considering it.

Listened to the Mayor get interviewed about it, was asked if they will subsidize the meter so the city could provide relief from load shedding. He said they would not as why would they subsidize those that can afford a solar setup. The host was like, ummm so that those who cannot afford a solar setup could benefit from their solar install? Still did not click, think Geordin is great and sing his praises but on this one where the city could spend R10m-R20m on meters and then be able to drop down a level of load shedding, surely the greater benefit to economy would be greater than the R20m?

The City thought process is, if can afford the install, whats another R12k? 

[The Ouzo]

1 minute ago, Pure Savage said:

Listened to the Mayor get interviewed about it, was asked if they will subsidize the meter so the city could provide relief from load shedding. He said they would not as why would they subsidize those that can afford a solar setup. The host was like, ummm so that those who cannot afford a solar setup could benefit from their solar install? Still did not click, think Geordin is great and sing his praises but on this one where the city could spend R10m-R20m on meters and then be able to drop down a level of load shedding, surely the greater benefit to economy would be greater than the R20m?

The City thought process is, if can afford the install, whats another R12k? 

And this is something that irritates the hell out of me. 
the install was out of desperation/need, most likely sacrifices were made or finance was taken out, as the losses associated with having no power out way the sacrifices made. Not a lot of middle class have 100-200k lying around to throw at solar. 
yet the thinking is you have the money, so a little extra won’t hurt. 
 

and this doesn’t just go for solar, many other things in life are the same. 

[HdB]

I like the thought of helping out... but I like the thought of adding another 4 panels around the end of this year more.

[-cK-]

Yea no they can then go suck a duck, my money, my infrastructure, my benefit.  If they are not contributing to the maintenance/infrastructure cost of the system at all nor willing to provide a better incentive I'm not sharing. 

This is nothing more than a handout mentality in my books.  Same logic, just because I can afford a car I now need to give everyone a lift because they can't afford their own car.  No they can go take a taxi or walk.   

6 minutes ago, HdB said:

I like the thought of helping out... but I like the thought of adding another 4 panels around the end of this year more.

Well if we go off grid we are helping out by reducing a households worth of demand from the grid 🤷‍♂️, just saying...

[Pure Savage]

Went down the rabbit hole of Sunsynk videos on weekend, If you great friends with your neighbour your could just get an inverter and battery set up and then when they would feedback to grid a second sunsynk could fill its standalone battery as if it was pulling power from mains or a generator, (Not through a charge controller).  

For pure back up purpose we could probably charge another 10Kw/h in the afternoon no probs.

[ChrisF]

36 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Listened to the Mayor get interviewed about it, was asked if they will subsidize the meter so the city could provide relief from load shedding. He said they would not as why would they subsidize those that can afford a solar setup. The host was like, ummm so that those who cannot afford a solar setup could benefit from their solar install? Still did not click, think Geordin is great and sing his praises but on this one where the city could spend R10m-R20m on meters and then be able to drop down a level of load shedding, surely the greater benefit to economy would be greater than the R20m?

The City thought process is, if can afford the install, whats another R12k? 

 

Also consider, when I did my solar install the COCT installed a "normal" pre-paid meter FOR FREE.

 

Surely a two-way meter does not cost R12k more than a fully installed normal pre-paid meter .....

[-cK-]

9 minutes ago, Pure Savage said:

Went down the rabbit hole of Sunsynk videos on weekend, If you great friends with your neighbour your could just get an inverter and battery set up and then when they would feedback to grid a second sunsynk could fill its standalone battery as if it was pulling power from mains or a generator, (Not through a charge controller).  

For pure back up purpose we could probably charge another 10Kw/h in the afternoon no probs.

Clearly you have not yet had a bad weather day 😅, but yes on good days we sit on so much potential capacity.  If the cities had any good sense they would invest in battery farms where all of the excess  power from each solar setup could get stored and then redistributed to the grid during loadshedding.  They get the power for "free" or at a reduced purchase price as to what eskom charge them and sell it to the people at their normal rate.  How does that not make sense and profit?

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, -cK- said:

Clearly you have not yet had a bad weather day 😅, but yes on good days we sit on so much potential capacity.  If the cities had any good sense they would invest in battery farms where all of the excess  power from each solar setup could get stored and then redistributed to the grid during loadshedding.  They get the power for "free" or at a reduced purchase price as to what eskom charge them and sell it to the people at their normal rate.  How does that not make sense and profit?

 

They are running diesel and gas generators non-stop at the moment.

 

no need for large battery back up systems.  Reduce the generator output in sync with the available PV and ramp up the generators when the pv reduces.  Every home that can supply a few kW.h per day saves a few liters of diesel/gas ......