Loadshedding solutions

[Bomberman]

Sadly my dream of going over to solar has been put on halt for now, so Im starting look at small things I can do to make it a bit easer when the donker koms.

I do have a genny but paying R2000 exstra on petrol is not in the planned budged. My new house is killing me 🤣

if I can run my booster pump I have water, and then look at a gas geyser,  trolley inverter for the wifi and TV.

Have back bulbs in all my light fittings which work lekker.

 

 

 

 

[-cK-]

18 minutes ago, Gr3mlin131 said:

As I understand, it is jut panels and electrical work, no extra plumbing needed as with the other options. Considering as one of my options as well.

and isn't there a pump involved that needs to run for it to work so it needs to be on a backup power solution for in case of loadshedding. 🤷‍♂️

 

"Evacuated Tube Collectors are a very efficient way of heating much of your hot water use just using the power of the sun. They can achieve high very temperatures but are more fragile than other types of solar collectors and are much more expensive to install. They can be used in either an active open-loop (without heat exchanger) or an active closed-loop (with heat exchanger) solar hot water system but a pump is required to circulate the heat transfer fluid from collector to storage in order to stop it from overheating."

[TheoG]

30 minutes ago, shaper said:

What is the reason from what am reading the preferred option is PV (geyserwise) for the geyser rather than evacuated tube or flat plate?

The advantages as I see it:

1.) Easy install, replace the geyser element with a dual element, install PV panels and MPPT controller and mount the geyserwise display panel inside the house, thats it.

2.) No plumbing required.

3.) No paying for gas, the sun is for free.

4.) Even if Eskom is off during the day, the geyser gets heated.

Disadvantages:

1.) Heat up slower compared to Eskom heating, but with a bit of planning, I'm using zero Eskom on the geyser.

2.) In Winter you might need to supplement with Eskom heating.

2.) Cant think of anything else ....  

Edited January 13, 2023 by TheoG

[NickGM]

10 minutes ago, TheoG said:

The advantages as I see it:

1.) Easy install, replace the geyser element with a dual element, install PV panels and MPPT controller and mount the geyserwise display panel inside the house, thats it.

2.) No plumbing required.

3.) No paying for gas, the sun is for free.

4.) Even if Eskom is off during the day, the geyser gets heated.

Disadvantages:

1.) Heat up slower compared to Eskom heating, but with a bit of planning, I'm using zero Eskom on the geyser.

2.) In Winter you might need to supplement with Eskom heating.

2.) Cant think of anything else ....  

A disadvantage of PV relative to EVT or plate is that it requires more of your roof area to generate the same amount of hot water. ie: it's a bit less efficient per square meter.

This is only a factor is real estate is at a premium.

[TheoG]

Just now, NickGM said:

A disadvantage of PV relative to EVT or plate is that it requires more of your roof area to generate the same amount of hot water. ie: it's a bit less efficient per square meter.

This is only a factor is real estate is at a premium.

True, luckily I got plenty of space on the roof.  Already got 10 x 455W panels up there and there is space for a lot more.

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, Bomberman said:

Hi All. Anybody running gas geysers?

We have been thinking of this option to help a bit on the savings, at the moment I need to run my geyser for 3 hours more a day due to loading shedding.

I do have a solar geyser, problem is that if my pressure pump doesn't run it cant circulate its water.

We mainly use hot water between 5am - 6am (2 adults, shower, bath) and 6pm - 7pm (2 kids in a bath) 

what would the ideal size be 15l -20l?

Ill still keep the solar geyser as it helps with afternoon heating.

is it worth spending cash for this.

 

 

thanks

 

We run 3 of them currently.

A 5l for the kitchen and laundry - It is just outside the 2 rooms so they instantly get hot water

A 15L on the cottage - because we got it on special

A 12l on the house bathroom - because a 16l is overkill

There is a compromise in that you do need to fiddle with settings when you run mixer taps. They restrict flow and you can end up shutting off the gas geyser and then end up with a cold buzz to make sure you are awake. If the flow of water through the geyser drops too low it shuts off, becasue the geyser restricts flow if you have 50/50 cold and hot water flow then the higher cold pressure pushes back and stops the hot water flow and geyser turns off. So you always need more hot water flowing than cold. Settings wise - we use a low gas setting and higher flow rate. Ideally we found if the water exits the geyser at around 45-50deg then you end up using mostly the hot water and then you get good flow to keep the geyser running and have some heat adjustment where needed. The pain is with a mixer having to start the shower on full hot to get the ignition and then get it to were you want it.

Our water pressure however is very very good. Or tank is about 18m off the ground on a stand so I am not sure how that affects things.

Always have a spare bottle on hand, because nothing gets the mrs more angry than telling her that the gas is done. Thankfully with a few geysers we can always steal a tank from another one or the braai.

Positives -

Unlimited hot water - with one bathroom we have had 8 people shower one after the other and no complaints about hot water running out. We often need a lot of hot water to warm 40+L of milk for the calves when the power is out at the dairy side. We can fill 2 x 40L drums in 5mins at 75degrees and then do it again 10mins later to clean the milking system.

Costing - Gas geyser costs a fraction of an electric geyser outright. I had to replumb the whole house anyway so it was cheaper than putting in an electric one anyway.

Damage risk - no geyser in the ceiling means that there won't be a burst geyser destroying a ceiling and or flooding a house. You do have the risks around gas but that is part of the trade.

The ones we have(totai) all run batter igniters which means no issues from load shedding, just always have spares( or have multiple geysers and pilfer batteries if needed.)

Water usage - by having a geyser outside various wet areas, you don't have water running for ages before the hot water gets there. We saw quite a drastic drop in our water usage.

 

1 hour ago, The Ouzo said:

So eskom had a massive 18.something % increase approved yesterday by NERSA. Watch LS drop to almost nothing now.

The pattern is always the same, huge increase in load shedding leading up to NERSA making a decision 

This is massive for the solar finance industry.

For us- our repayments on 8kw invertor, 12x 550w panels and a 14,5kwh battery were equivalent to our eskom bill( the line rentals are massive). But if the increase affects the network and service charges it will mean that the breakeven point on solar vs eskom will move from around 5 years, to around 4 years. That will be a major tipping point. If the solar is paid off after 4 years and it is all warranty till 10 years it just makes the business case that much stronger.

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, HdB said:

Isn't it possible to get a small PV panel that just runs the pump?
I've heard of such setups, I guess it depends on the type/ voltage of the pump

 

This is the best solution 👍👍

[ChrisF]

35 minutes ago, TheoG said:

The advantages as I see it:

1.) Easy install, replace the geyser element with a dual element, install PV panels and MPPT controller and mount the geyserwise display panel inside the house, thats it.

2.) No plumbing required.

3.) No paying for gas, the sun is for free.

4.) Even if Eskom is off during the day, the geyser gets heated.

Disadvantages:

1.) Heat up slower compared to Eskom heating, but with a bit of planning, I'm using zero Eskom on the geyser.

2.) In Winter you might need to supplement with Eskom heating.

2.) Cant think of anything else ....  

 

No space above my geyser for water panels.

 

I could place the PV panels 15m away, and easily route the electrical wires.

 

 

Big positive for many installations.

 

 

Another very important safety benefit .... with the PV approach it is easy to control the maximum water temperature.  With the solar water systems many failures relate to the system overheating ...

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, shaper said:

What is the reason from what am reading the preferred option is PV (geyserwise) for the geyser rather than evacuated tube or flat plate?

As the saying goes, make hay while the sun shines. If one has enough PV capacity available, it’s the better option currently.

An evacuated tube system relies on a few things:

- insulated pipes in areas close to, or below, freezing point. One the warmer water in the tubes starts circulating, burst pipes can happen;

- power to pump/circulate the water, unless the geyser is higher than the tubes;

- sufficient tubes to cover the geyser size. When my geyser was replaced, the Insurer’s contractor replaced it with a bigger one.

- cooling measures on extra hot days, when the geyser isn’t being used. GeyserWise has a holiday mode, which circulates hot water during the night to cool the water in the geyser. Highest I’ve seen mine get is 78°C, because the pumps automatically circulates water when it’s >8°C than the geyser temp.

 

A PV system simply controls the thermostat on the element, which then keeps the geyser close to that setting.

[TheoG]

25 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

No space above my geyser for water panels.

 

I could place the PV panels 15m away, and easily route the electrical wires.

 

 

Big positive for many installations.

 

 

Another very important safety benefit .... with the PV approach it is easy to control the maximum water temperature.  With the solar water systems many failures relate to the system overheating ...

Max temp is 75 deg, then the MPPT stop pushing power to the geyser element.

[TheoG]

Just now, Frosty said:

As the saying goes, make hay while the sun shines. If one has enough PV capacity available, it’s the better option currently.

An evacuated tube system relies on a few things:

- insulated pipes in areas close to, or below, freezing point. One the warmer water in the tubes starts circulating, burst pipes can happen;

- power to pump/circulate the water, unless the geyser is higher than the tubes;

- sufficient tubes to cover the geyser size. When my geyser was replaced, the Insurer’s contractor replaced it with a bigger one.

- cooling measures on extra hot days, when the geyser isn’t being used. GeyserWise has a holiday mode, which circulates hot water during the night to cool the water in the geyser. Highest I’ve seen mine get is 78°C, because the pumps automatically circulates water when it’s >8°C than the geyser temp.

 

A PV system simply controls the thermostat on the element, which then keeps the geyser close to that setting.

Not sure of others but mine keep on heating the geyser while the sun shines REGARDLESS until it hit 75 deg, only then it stop.  That happen some days in summer but not always.

The temp setting on the gesyerwise display/control unit have no influence on it what so ever.  That only control the Eskom power should the temp drop below the specified value and it fall in the time slots as programmed.

[Frosty]

3 minutes ago, TheoG said:

Not sure of others but mine keep on heating the geyser while the sun shines REGARDLESS until it hit 75 deg, only then it stop.  That happen some days in summer but not always.

The temp setting on the gesyerwise display/control unit have no influence on it what so ever.  That only control the Eskom power should the temp drop below the specified value and it fall in the time slots as programmed.

True, mine works the same way.

At least your have the limit of 75°C, so there is a fail-safe.

[The Ouzo]

6 minutes ago, Frosty said:

True, mine works the same way.

At least your have the limit of 75°C, so there is a fail-safe.

surely that cant be right, we're not making tea here, we just want warm water to shower.

There must surely be a way to control this ?

[Frosty]

18 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

surely that cant be right, we're not making tea here, we just want warm water to shower.

There must surely be a way to control this ?

On mine, it’s not possible to control the temperature from the water circulation; at least not with the system I currently have.

With the automation, I’m hoping to build in some logic (if this then that - IFTTT). Will see when I get the new PCB.

[TheoG]

15 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

surely that cant be right, we're not making tea here, we just want warm water to shower.

There must surely be a way to control this ?

No it works perfectly well like this.  You basically "store" all the energy you possibly can from the days sun into the geyser, eliminating the need to heat it from the grid.

When shower or washing the dishes however you must mix with cold water otherwise you will get a nasty burn ....  

[madmarc]

A question for all you Electronic boffins from a mech guy

My Samsung Monitor requires  14V 1.78 amps (This is the output on the main adapter as well)

I have a DC Ups with 9v/1amp - 12v/3amps & 12v/1.5amps outlets - 17800 MaH that i use to run my wifi modem and range extenders on - lasts for over 5 hours

Can i run my samsung Monitor off the same UPS off one of the 12v outlets - will it work or will it blow up ??

UPS also has 15V/24V POE & LAN outlets - have no clue what they are for