Old Mutual Wealth Double Century 2022 on behalf of a slacking Pure Savage

[milky4130]

So rather let cyclists kill themselves by forcing racing teams to over take inconsiderate social teams not wanting to keep single file and far left as possible, on the right hand side of the road head on into oncoming traffic, than to kill off the event by letting slower teams start last ? 🧐🤔 ok let’s go with this option then 👍🏻

If the racing teams have to wait until it’s safe to overtake it might not happen or it could mean losing out on minutes which often decides the winner, this year it was 7 minutes. As mentioned already the COVID year it worked well when fastest teams jumped away first 🤷🏼‍♂️

[DieselnDust]

27 minutes ago, milky4130 said:

So rather let cyclists kill themselves by forcing racing teams to over take inconsiderate social teams not wanting to keep single file and far left as possible, on the right hand side of the road head on into oncoming traffic, than to kill off the event by letting slower teams start last ? 🧐🤔 ok let’s go with this option then 👍🏻

If the racing teams have to wait until it’s safe to overtake it might not happen or it could mean losing out on minutes which often decides the winner, this year it was 7 minutes. As mentioned already the COVID year it worked well when fastest teams jumped away first 🤷🏼‍♂️

something has to be done. I saw too many accidents this year

[babse]

My view is the event format is good as is for racing and social... I do think the event is waay over subscribed and time gaps are ridiculous. 

100-150 teams max with 2-5min start gaps (5min last 10 seeded racing teams).

I think the COVID format will kill the event eventually. Social teams all out there till late afternoon is just silly...

[milky4130]

1 minute ago, babse said:

My view is the event format is good as is for racing and social... I do think the event is waay over subscribed and time gaps are ridiculous. 

100-150 teams max with 2-5min start gaps (5min last 10 seeded racing teams).

I think the COVID format will kill the event eventually. Social teams all out there till late afternoon is just silly...

more teams = more money in the bank.

Reverse order should encourage teams to ride faster if they dont want to be out there later than 3pm.

[Pure Savage]

The marshals that are around should be asking the social teams to not ride in groups of 5 wide, rather than tell the team trying to pass that there is no space.

[Skubarra]

10 hours ago, Meezo said:

Disagree with the above because of the below 

 

While the DC is a "race" it's not the core of their support and entries.

Maybe the top 5 of the top 10 teams are in with a real chance of winning (not sure how much and if it's worth it) but everyone else is just riding for their fastest possible time... and while we all love going really fast it's our responsibility to be a careful as we can and should be.

I speak for myself I found myself in a team my first road event since 2016, and i was guttered in the oncoming lane ie in the opposite side of the side in the yellow lane... this was the most nerve wrecking thing in a long time

The more i think about it now of what could of gone wrong the more i realise how dangerous and irresponsible it was...and in the end not worth it

People are people and unless there is enough marshalls (strict but smart) then this will always be an issue ...

I do recall seeing a fatality on route that of a motorcyclist... was a horror to see 

Haha! Touche - this is why you don't post after a few glasses of wine. Thought I agreed until I wasn't anymore...

You weren't in team 223 by any chance?

Edited December 1, 2022 by Skubarra

[Skubarra]

8 hours ago, milky4130 said:

more teams = more money in the bank.

Reverse order should encourage teams to ride faster if they dont want to be out there later than 3pm.

You genuinely think the only reason social teams are slow is because they are encouraged by nice seedings?

The event will be killed off long before social teams are "encouraged" to ride faster.

[Skubarra]

8 hours ago, Pure Savage said:

The marshals that are around should be asking the social teams to not ride in groups of 5 wide, rather than tell the team trying to pass that there is no space.

2020 with the different starting order the marshals had a doable job - easy to separate 2 teams when there is no one else around.

Once mass groups form the presence of marshals is fairly pointless, impossible to enforce the rules in the current format. 

[DieselnDust]

35 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

2020 with the different starting order the marshals had a doable job - easy to separate 2 teams when there is no one else around.

Once mass groups form the presence of marshals is fairly pointless, impossible to enforce the rules in the current format. 

There's no easy solution here. The local governments are not going to shut down roads for more than a couple of hours but they can have a rolling road closure for the pro teams.

Maybe whats needed is OMW to bring out UAE, Jumbo Visma, EF Education and have them tackle the course on TT bikes.  Commissaires vehicle up front with a traffic Dept chaperone and motorists and cyclists will get cleared. I'd love to see in what time those boys and girls can complete the course.

 

AS for the marshalls, I think they can be effective. We had a marshall telling riders to keep left at the start of ODT. If the marshalls take it a step further and actually use a flag system, orange for a warning, next its red for 5min time penalty and pull the offending team over, repeat offense it;s black flag and you're out at the FZ. Team goes home with nothing. Then maybe there will be greater conformance to the rules of riding single file.

Most social teams are there for the jawl and riding next to each other is far easier to hold a conversation

[Meezo]

54 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

Haha! Touche - this is why you don't post after a few glasses of wine. Thought I agreed until I wasn't anymore...

You weren't in team 223 by any chance?

i was yes! 🤐

[FootballingCyclist]

Speaking of crashes, Anyone have news on the lady from the PEAK team in the celeste colour jerseys who crashed basically right under the Cogmanskloof pass and who was taken to hospital?

 

Then I only heard after the race that a marshall has sadly passed away? some team was saying they rode past him and he was already covered with a foil blanket, No damage to his motorbike so they assumed it was a heart attack??

[bleedToWin]

11 hours ago, Meezo said:

Maybe the top 5 of the top 10 teams are in with a real chance of winning (not sure how much and if it's worth it) but everyone else is just riding for their fastest possible time...

The difference comes in when so so many teams plan for a fastest possible time around a drafting strategy. The tolerance from the race organisers is to the point where this is practically encouraged. Others have commented that the social teams can't survive (or really struggle) when the start order is reversed and they can't draft. So the event would loose numbers if we enforce the rules? That's just sad.

The Cogmanskloof 9:30 opening makes it very hard to start fast teams early, I get that. But if there was a will to enforce anti drafting it could easily be implemented with the current format. Bike marshal red flags your team, you have to pull over and come to a complete stop. He takes down your team number, three strikes and you're out!

I don't like that "the spirit of DC" seems to be starting in teams but drafting off of others then regrouping in the Team Zones. I'm not alone in this opinion, but might be in the minority.

As to fairness - I don't really want to get too much into it since it will look like sour grapes from my side, but the amount of group riding by "racing teams" is a joke and the relative times and positions outside of the top 3 mean very little. 

[Skubarra]

12 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

There's no easy solution here. The local governments are not going to shut down roads for more than a couple of hours but they can have a rolling road closure for the pro teams.

Maybe whats needed is OMW to bring out UAE, Jumbo Visma, EF Education and have them tackle the course on TT bikes.  Commissaires vehicle up front with a traffic Dept chaperone and motorists and cyclists will get cleared. I'd love to see in what time those boys and girls can complete the course.

 

AS for the marshalls, I think they can be effective. We had a marshall telling riders to keep left at the start of ODT. If the marshalls take it a step further and actually use a flag system, orange for a warning, next its red for 5min time penalty and pull the offending team over, repeat offense it;s black flag and you're out at the FZ. Team goes home with nothing. Then maybe there will be greater conformance to the rules of riding single file.

Most social teams are there for the jawl and riding next to each other is far easier to hold a conversation

If you can have rolling road closures at least while the faster teams are around I think it can work - traffic was relatively light until Montagu.

Happy to agree to disagree on the marshals, I don't think the rules are enforceable on the current format. At least half the field will end up being disqualified and still there would be issues - for me its the format not the marshals that's the bigger issue.

[bleedToWin]

1 hour ago, Skubarra said:

Once mass groups form the presence of marshals is fairly pointless, impossible to enforce the rules in the current format. 

Hard, but not impossible.
Leave them on OdT, but after that hunt them down and flag them from the back of the group. "Pass or let the wheel go or you risk getting pulled over". Do it one team at a time and you can make it safer. Communicate it 100 times before the event that drafting off of other teams will absolutely not be tolerated if you are 3 or more team members together.

The pushed the "team spirit" narrative this year, let's put the "team" back in "team event". 

[Skubarra]

8 minutes ago, FootballingCyclist said:

Speaking of crashes, Anyone have news on the lady from the PEAK team in the celeste colour jerseys who crashed basically right under the Cogmanskloof pass and who was taken to hospital?

 

Then I only heard after the race that a marshall has sadly passed away? some team was saying they rode past him and he was already covered with a foil blanket, No damage to his motorbike so they assumed it was a heart attack??

I don't think it was a bike marshal, seems like a regular motorist. From what I understand the rider was hit by a Guinea fowl on the head while driving, there was also a passenger who survived but is in hospital.

[Skubarra]

2 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

Hard, but not impossible.
Leave them on OdT, but after that hunt them down and flag them from the back of the group. "Pass or let the wheel go or you risk getting pulled over". Do it one team at a time and you can make it safer. Communicate it 100 times before the event that drafting off of other teams will absolutely not be tolerated if you are 3 or more team members together.

The pushed the "team spirit" narrative this year, let's put the "team" back in "team event". 

And if the marshal get to the group by the time its a free for all with different groups completely mixed together in massive bunches - they will spent all day hunting down people and still miss most. And due to the format it can happen literally any place at any time during the day. Stand by my point its the format that is "unmarshalable". Unfortunately this event is not about the faster teams.